Hi!
I am new to the "dutch dating world" and encountered already my problems with the first guy! We met through internet, I asked him out for a first date and felt head oder heels in love with him that night. And I thought that I have enough dating experience that he behaved like he felt the same…
We said goodbye that night (after talking for 5 hours!) and that was that. 10 Minutes after I got home the same night I got a sms that he had a wonderful evening and wants to see me again. We agreed on a second date 2 weeks later and after some hours of chatting he asked me if I am interested in a 3rd date and when I said "yes" he kissed me and said: "Now you have a Dutch boyfriend." Wow- that was straight-forward I thought. He also (first!) told me that he felt head over heels for me on the first date as well. On the 3rd date we went to the cinema and the 4th date he cancelled due to illness. I "visited" him 2 days later at home and we went to bed together (kissing only- but it was my initiative- otherwise we would still sit on the sofa, not even holding hands). During these weeks we kept sending sms. On Thursday I saw him the last time. On Friday I sent him a sms because a friend from home was here and I thought we could all meet for a drink on the weekend. Got a sms that he is too busy and whishes us fun. I haven`t heard from him since then. So I send him a sms on Tuesday (yesterday) how his weekend was- no answer yet. I have no clue if this is normal when dating a Dutch. Is he really my boyfriend? Or was that just a way of telling me he wants to kiss me? Is he serious? What is the Dutch guy`s definition of "relationship" when the refer to themselves as your bf? I know that he has not much time, working 40h/week, has to travel for 2 h/day to work, plays some sport 6 days/week…but if he is interested and really has a crush on me, it must be possible to see each other more often than more or less once in two weeks….? Can anyone give an explanation to that? Ever experienced the same? I don`t want to be too pushy but I don`t want him thinking that I am not interested enough…
Groetjes and thanx for your help!

not talking for nearly a week sounds suspect to me. i'd give it a few more days and if you don't hear from him, just move on. but that's me, i'm not patient enough to deal with bullshit.

Experience has taught me that if you are asking these questions, then it's time to move on.

If it's the right guy, these questions will rarely cross your mind.

SHit! So even a Dutch should show more interest than this?

How I hate that fucking around when feelings are involved... (

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SHit! So even a Dutch should show more interest than this?

How I hate that fucking around when feelings are involved... (

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It's not a cultural thing. It's a guy thing. If he wants to be with you, he'll find a way. Job or no job.

I don't find them any different here than in North America...They just don't drive big trucks! <img src="../images/emoticons/ywink.gif">

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It's not a cultural thing. It's a guy thing. If he wants to be with you, he'll find a way. Job or no job.

I don't find them any different here than in North America...They just don't drive big trucks!




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Mmmhhh....I just thought, after I read a lot about the "pushy dutch women" that I was not showing enough interest in him and that that has put him off...I have no clue. But as far as I "know" him after these dates, I think he is not the kind of guy who quits a relationship in just never answering a sms and playing dead man...

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It's not a cultural thing. It's a guy thing. If he wants to be with you, he'll find a way. Job or no job.

I don't find them any different here than in North America...They just don't drive big trucks!




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Mmmhhh....I just thought, after I read a lot about the "pushy dutch women" that I was not showing enough interest in him and that that has put him off...I have no clue. But as far as I "know" him after these dates, I think he is not the kind of guy who quits a relationship in just never answering a sms and playing dead man...

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I wouldn't overthink it. That was always my tendency too, and I was usually never right.

I'd focus on finding someone who treats you how you deserve to be treated.

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I wouldn't overthink it. That was always my tendency too, and I was usually never right.

I'd focus on finding someone who treats you how you deserve to be treated.

************************************Ja,Maybe I sound very stupid now- but I really like this guy and I will give him another chance. He has a full agenda and it takes probably some time for him to get used to having a girlfriend now...

It sounds like he just needs a little space. Maybe it was too much too fast and if you let things go a little - he will come back to you.

Sometimes people get intense feelings and then get frightened by them. Human nature I guess.

I wouldn't worry about it - I know this is difficult if you can't get the guy out of your head!

Him being Dutch means nothing. I have been with men from all over the world and the more of them I am involved with the more I see how similar they are.

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It sounds like he just needs a little space. Maybe it was too much too fast and if you let things go a little - he will come back to you.

Sometimes people get intense feelings and then get frightened by them. Human nature I guess.

I wouldn't worry about it - I know this is difficult if you can't get the guy out of your head!

Him being Dutch means nothing. I have been with men from all over the world and the more of them I am involved with the more I see how similar they are.



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Exactly- that`s what I am thinking about. And my heart tells me that I should give him a chance to get used to it...I don`t want to put him under pressure but of course I would love to see him. But I have to respect that he has a lot to do and he cannot chance his life from one day to the other. I normally give a guy loads of space and I do not rush a relationship. I am used to having relationships with guys from my "cultural background" and that was dating after dating after dating. And finally deciding "yes, we are together" The only thing which surprised me here, was, that this guy told me on the second date: Now I am your boyfriend!
So I guess you are right:He had the more intense feelings than I had and maybe he is frightened now.

I posted that in this forum, no matter if it`s a cultural thing or not. I have no clue as this is my first "Dutchy" )
I will let you know if it worked out...

Nope - you've deluding yourself baby-girl.

Like Beebs said, this has nothing to do with him being Dutch. Men are men.

It's not what a guy 'says' ... it's what he DOES that matters. So him saying, 'you've just got a Dutch bf' ... doesn't mean anything if he's not TREATING you like he's your bf.

Men - they are singular simple-minded creatures - if truth be known, that aren't so hard to figure out. (and I say that jokeingly <img src="../images/emoticons/ywink.gif"> )

For example, you said that on date 4 you slept together but you had to take the initiative to kiss him - and that's all that happened?

Ummmm. Now, that should have told you something right there.

Not meaning offend the other poster but ... the idea that he 'just needs a little space' and 'he's frightened by his feelings for you' are a woman's 'read' on this situation.

Hee hee! Men don't think like this! Like I said - they are simple-minded creatures. <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

Any healthy hetero man that's INTO you, is not going to let you lie there all night without 'trying' something.

That was a big clue... BIG. And you've just glossed it over.

He's got a full schedule?

Umm let me ask you a question. What do you tell a guy that wants to date you, but you know you're not interested in him? You say 'Ummm, I'm busy these days'.

You're not gonna say ... 'hey, I'm just not that into you' because you don't want to hurt his feelings right?

But ... when someone you LIKE comes along, you will shift your schedule to fit him into it - because you're not letting a good one get away - right?

Well... same thing with guys. It doesn't matter HOW busy he is ... he will find a way of getting you in his life ... if he wants you.

Sorry, we've all be hurt like this when someone we like gives us the brush off. Time to move on.

(Like I said though ... the 'hands off' thingy in bed should you tell you something ... just t'aint normal unless he's like ... 12.) <img src="../images/emoticons/swhmm.gif">

I somewhat suspect that she was looking for someone to tell her what she wanted to hear, rather than real advice...

Which is very typical in matters of the heart. I know I used to.

And I realize in retrospect that all those thoughts: he's busy, he's confused, he's shy, he's tortured he's scared, he's this, he's that, were just wrong wrong wrong.

If it's meant to be, it will be simple. Because, like ouloveit said, men are simple.

Forget all the movies and TV shows and books and magazines. They're all overly romanticized bollocks.

And if a guy IS tortured or confused or scared, what the BLEEP would you want with that? Need something to occupy your time, take up a hobby. Less painful (unless it's rugby or something <img src="../images/emoticons/ybigrin.gif">).

Sorry, but this is just the advice I wish I had listened to 20 years ago. Although that being said, if I hadn't been a bonehead for 20 years, would I have ended up with my non-tortured, non-confused prince in the end? <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

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Okay, okay, lot of stuff to put my mood down...anyway, I will phone him tonight and see.

And just another thing, which was understood wrongly, I guess: I was at his place for just 3 hours, I had another appointment, I didn`t spent the night there...and he would have wanted to sleep with me but I said no just because I wanted it on a day where I can stay overnight...

If that matters, anyway, of course...

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I somewhat suspect that she was looking for someone to tell her what she wanted to hear, rather than real advice...

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No- i really wanted ADVICE as I said in the first place...I wasn`t sure if it`s a guy thing or a DUTCH guy thing...

(

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Okay, okay, lot of stuff to put my mood down...anyway, I will phone him tonight and see.

And just another thing, which was understood wrongly, I guess: I was at his place for just 3 hours, I had another appointment, I didn`t spent the night there...and he would have wanted to sleep with me but I said no just because I wanted it on a day where I can stay overnight...

If that matters, anyway, of course...

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Umm it doesn't matter. <img src="../images/emoticons/swhmm.gif">

And DON'T call him. Do_not_pursue_a man. This makes you look desparate and needy - qualities SURE to put him off.

He has your number right? And he's not calling you? What does this tell you?

Okay .. do what you want anyway ... some folks just gotta learn the hard way. (shakes head)

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Umm it doesn't matter.

And DON'T call him. Do_not_pursue_a man. This makes you look desparate and needy - qualities SURE to put him off.

He has your number right? And he's not calling you? What does this tell you?

Okay .. do what you want anyway ... some folks just gotta learn the hard way. (shakes head)

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Okay, I will do it the hard way, then...

Just so frustrating that it is ALWAYS the same...never had success in relationships...

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And DON'T call him. Do_not_pursue_a man. This makes you look desparate and needy - qualities SURE to put him off.

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Um, no offense but this is very bad advice.

This is year 2006. When a woman pursues a man she is now seen as being independant and knowing exactly what she wants.

You must be rather old to provide such a measure of wisdom. Try again.

dating a dutch - i seriously doubt that this man is any different then any other man. however if you've slept with him and he didn't touch you well, he might just be gay and would prefer to be friends.

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Um, no offense but this is very bad advice.

This is year 2006. When a woman pursues a man she is now seen as being independant and knowing exactly what she wants.

You must be rather old to provide such a measure of wisdom. Try again.

dating a dutch - i seriously doubt that this man is any different then any other man. however if you've slept with him and he didn't touch you well, he might just be gay and would prefer to be friends.

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Good point- or maybe false hope for me. But that is what I meant. I call him because I want to show interest!

and NO- we haven`t slept together yet because I said I want to wait and he accepted. So please count this as a plus-point for him.
If he had pursued me to sleep with him, than you would be telling me what a bastard he is that he cannot accept a no...(not you personally, Razor, but I think that would be probably the next argument here)...

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but I think that would be probably the next argument here)...
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The bottom line is if you like him well - go for it.

People make these things far too complicated. Life is short and if you manage to build any kind of relationship with him at all, having said that you really like him, then it can only be an advantage to you in the future.

Relationship or not.

Dutch or not - men aren't as simple minded as women think and they certainly don't like to be pushed around nor told what to do. Men don't run the majority of major companies the world over if they are as simple minded as some women think.

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The bottom line is if you like him well - go for it.

People make these things far too complicated. Life is short and if you manage to build any kind of relationship with him at all, having said that you really like him, then it can only be an advantage to you in the future.

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Thanks- I will try. But it doesn`t look good right now. He does not react to my phone calls (mobile) I didn`t leeve a message, but he is not interested enough to call back...sigh...okay, one last try, then I give up and call it "over"...

dating-a-dutch ... I tried to warn you.

He knew you would call him - he's not stupid. He can see your number on his mobile - just like you see his number on your mobile. <img src="../images/emoticons/swhmm.gif">

Now you feel bad because instead of taking the hint ... you called him just so he could blatently give you the brush off.

I'm not telling you these things to hurt you, I'm just trying to get you to wise up about relationships.

It IS okay to call a man when you are IN a relationship and there are back and forth calls etc.... But in this situation no.

Believe me - I'll bet you have many, many lovely qualities such that another guy would bend over backwards to be with you!

You've been hurt so go ahead a get a good cry out of your system (maybe for a month or so, <img src="../images/emoticons/ywink.gif"> then put on your 'gladrags', pinch your cheeks, fluff up yout hair, shake back your head and ... get back in the game.
<img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

You'll meet someone else... lots of nice guys looking for a nice girl like you!

Oh yes, every generation somebody tries to reinvent the wheel and say all this stuff doesn't matter 'in this day in age'. Well, they've been saying this at least since the 1920's but ... some things never change. This is one of them.

I reiterate:

Never_pursue_a_man.

(It screws up the whole balance of power between men and women. You can flirt, yes but ... let_him_come_to_you.)

It's all part of the game ... the 'dating' game.

Hiya, I think Ouloveit is right. This has happened to me as well, I couldn't imagine someone would just ignore me that way and hope I'd just get the message but it happens a lot and it's really hurtful.
I've learnt not to run after them, let them do the running! If they're serious then they will and maybe it's oldfashioned but it seems to be the way things work between men and women.
We can try and be all modern about it and some men probably do like it when the woman pursues, but most of the time it's just good oldfashioned man-meets-woman, man-likes-woman, man will not rest til he can drag her by the hair to his cave <img src="../images/emoticons/ywink.gif">

I hope you don't feel too bad, sounds like you really liked the guy

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I hope you don't feel too bad, sounds like you really liked the guy

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Yes, I did! Still do....but it`s over. I realised today...

Found out, that he lied to me from the beginning...

It hurts. But what hurts most, is, that I think the older I get I get more and more stupid. I believe things nowadays easier than when I was younger. Is it panic? Panic to alone? The biological clock?

I don`t know.

I had a cry, a good bottle of red whine, some chocolate and next week (or so) I will move on...

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dating-a-dutch ... I tried to warn you.

He knew you would call him - he's not stupid. He can see your number on his mobile - just like you see his number on your mobile.

Now you feel bad because instead of taking the hint ... you called him just so he could blatently give you the brush off.

I'm not telling you these things to hurt you, I'm just trying to get you to wise up about relationships.

It IS okay to call a man when you are IN a relationship and there are back and forth calls etc.... But in this situation no.

Believe me - I'll bet you have many, many lovely qualities such that another guy would bend over backwards to be with you!

You've been hurt so go ahead a get a good cry out of your system (maybe for a month or so, then put on your 'gladrags', pinch your cheeks, fluff up yout hair, shake back your head and ... get back in the game.


You'll meet someone else... lots of nice guys looking for a nice girl like you!

Oh yes, every generation somebody tries to reinvent the wheel and say all this stuff doesn't matter 'in this day in age'. Well, they've been saying this at least since the 1920's but ... some things never change. This is one of them.

I reiterate:

Never_pursue_a_man.

(It screws up the whole balance of power between men and women. You can flirt, yes but ... let_him_come_to_you.)

It's all part of the game ... the 'dating' game.



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Thanks for the warning!

He could NOT see my number (it was an old-fashioned telefone on the landline (fixed)) but after I left a call on his mobile, I KNEW that it is over.

Before I thought it is not wrong to call him, as I still thought we had a relationship. And as you said, it is not wrong in a r to call each other. Now, that I know that it was already over for HIM, the whole situation looks different of course.

Lots of nice guys? WHERE ARE THEY? I guess the older I get (30) the less nice guys are available. The other girls where faster than me. What is left is some sort of rubbish (at least my last 2 bf were!) The nice guys are married! If you see someone nice and still beeing single and not beeing gay of course- let me know. I don`t think, that there are some still around...

(

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dating-a-dutch ... I tried to warn you.

He knew you would call him - he's not stupid. He can see your number on his mobile - just like you see his number on your mobile.

Now you feel bad because instead of taking the hint ... you called him just so he could blatently give you the brush off.

I'm not telling you these things to hurt you, I'm just trying to get you to wise up about relationships.

It IS okay to call a man when you are IN a relationship and there are back and forth calls etc.... But in this situation no.

Believe me - I'll bet you have many, many lovely qualities such that another guy would bend over backwards to be with you!

You've been hurt so go ahead a get a good cry out of your system (maybe for a month or so, then put on your 'gladrags', pinch your cheeks, fluff up yout hair, shake back your head and ... get back in the game.


You'll meet someone else... lots of nice guys looking for a nice girl like you!

Oh yes, every generation somebody tries to reinvent the wheel and say all this stuff doesn't matter 'in this day in age'. Well, they've been saying this at least since the 1920's but ... some things never change. This is one of them.

I reiterate:

Never_pursue_a_man.

(It screws up the whole balance of power between men and women. You can flirt, yes but ... let_him_come_to_you.)

It's all part of the game ... the 'dating' game.



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Thanks for the warning!

He could NOT see my number (it was an old-fashioned telefone on the landline (fixed)) but after I left a call on his mobile, I KNEW that it is over.

Before I thought it is not wrong to call him, as I still thought we had a relationship. And as you said, it is not wrong in a r to call each other. Now, that I know that it was already over for HIM, the whole situation looks different of course.

Lots of nice guys? WHERE ARE THEY? I guess the older I get (30) the less nice guys are available. The other girls where faster than me. What is left is some sort of rubbish (at least my last 2 bf were!) The nice guys are married! If you see someone nice and still beeing single and not beeing gay of course- let me know. I don`t think, that there are some still around...

(

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Where are you from dating-a-dutch? And are you really 30? You didnt seem so mature in your first posts, I was thinking you were younger - and how old you are does make a difference to the advice I would offer. Seems your english was much better in the first post too. I hope this isnt another 'fake story' thread...

They just printed an article here on expatica that talks about the rising number of singles in the Netherlands.

Try to do a search on it.

There ARE decent guys out there. I can't tell you were they all are but it's the same thing worldwide, not just Holland. 'Where to meet a nice guy?' I'm sure there are guys wondering ...'where to meet a nice girl?' <img src="../images/emoticons/swhmm.gif">

Don't fall into the trap of accepting crumbs from guys that treat you in a shabby fashion ... because you think that's all you can get.

You're better off alone that staying with someone that's gonna make you feel bad about yourself.

You're 30? Hee hee - that's YOUNG!! <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

Give yourself a little time to get over this situation ... but don't wait too long. Once you fall off the horse ... best to get right back on it.

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Where are you from dating-a-dutch? And are you really 30? You didnt seem so mature in your first posts, I was thinking you were younger - and how old you are does make a difference to the advice I would offer. Seems your english was much better in the first post too. I hope this isnt another 'fake story' thread...

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Amsterdam.
Yes, really.
Sorry that I sound stupid, young and un-expierienced.
And no, it is SURE no fake. Why should I do something? I have better things to do than inventing stories about my sick love-life! (

Lots of nice guys? WHERE ARE THEY? I guess the older I get (30) the less nice guys are available. The other girls where faster than me. What is left is some sort of rubbish (at least my last 2 bf were!) The nice guys are married! If you see someone nice and still beeing single and not beeing gay of course- let me know. I don`t think, that there are some still around...

(
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I really do feel for you - it can be so difficult to get somebody out of your head - nature made us that way!

There are lots of nice guys - they are just younger!!! I discovered this a few years ago and have had so much fun since that I don't want to get stuck with anybody for too long!

I find guys my age or older to be less fun and have more expectations. Yuck.

Good luck!

I really do feel for you - it can be so difficult to get somebody out of your head - nature made us that way!

There are lots of nice guys - they are just younger!!! I discovered this a few years ago and have had so much fun since that I don't want to get stuck with anybody for too long!

I find guys my age or older to be less fun and have more expectations. Yuck.

Good luck!

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not much stamina either as they get older <img src="../images/emoticons/ywink.gif"> stick with the young uns is also my advice!

yep ... no staying power. Get yourself a youngun. <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

I really do feel for you - it can be so difficult to get somebody out of your head - nature made us that way!

There are lots of nice guys - they are just younger!!! I discovered this a few years ago and have had so much fun since that I don't want to get stuck with anybody for too long!

I find guys my age or older to be less fun and have more expectations. Yuck.

Good luck!

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This guy was 27- and I felt sooo old besides him! And I want to get married, kids, family...not now of course, after a couple of years. But I think a younger guy is more into just having fun- nothing serious...as I experienced with the last one. Which age would you recommend for "young" in my case (nearly 30)???

Groetjes & thanks for the good-luck-wishes!

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Which age would you recommend for "young" in my case (nearly 30)???

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How old for a woman that is approximately 30? I'd say 45 is about the correct age.

Stamina? Some of my friends are built like you would not believe attending the gym during working hours at least 3 times per week. Most are confident, good looking, have a lots of cash flow, and date some of the most beautiful women I have ever seen. On the other hand, some of them also date the types that look like librarians without hesitation. This is the type I prefer also - smart, glasses, strawberry blond, and NOT skinny. Most of the younger guys that work for me are really frustrated and wouldn't know how to hold a womans hand much less anything else.

Like I said before this is 2006 and men don't like a woman that just hangs on his arm. One can only wonder why these men can date women so young and keep them satisfied. Healthy chaps I imagine...and smart. Hell, 2 of them are flat broke and they still maintain healthy relationships with much younger women. So don't think that these women are money diggers - it's a pathetic excuse to find a reason. The women are attacted to them, and that's it.

And the advice the women are providing here is the worse advice I have ever heard in my life. It appears that most use the self-protection mechanism of he is not good enough for me and doesn't treat me like a queen bee so they remain single most of their lives. Or they settle for a man they do not love. What a waste of a life. No passion.

Let's face it and I have seen this soooo many times. A woman only needs to look into a man's eyes to understand if he is interested or not. If he holds your view for more than 6 seconds he's interested. And if he doesn't try to sleep with you inside of 3 days then he's crippled. Lastly if he gets you back to his place and then sits on the other couch across from you watch it - you'll be crippled the next morning. He's but building up steam and trying to focus on a frontal position ;-)

Adios - I've work to do.

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I really do feel for you - it can be so difficult to get somebody out of your head - nature made us that way!

There are lots of nice guys - they are just younger!!! I discovered this a few years ago and have had so much fun since that I don't want to get stuck with anybody for too long!

I find guys my age or older to be less fun and have more expectations. Yuck.

Good luck!

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This guy was 27- and I felt sooo old besides him! And I want to get married, kids, family...not now of course, after a couple of years. But I think a younger guy is more into just having fun- nothing serious...as I experienced with the last one. Which age would you recommend for "young" in my case (nearly 30)???

Groetjes & thanks for the good-luck-wishes!

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I am not being cruel or anything like that but if you feel that somebody that is 27 (when you are almost 30) is too young then perhaps you have other issues.

I would not consider this an age difference at all. When I say younger I mean around their late teens/early twenties.

If you want a serious relationship, however, then age is of no importance. People mature at different times in their lives.

Some people are ready to be serious when they are twenty and others are not ready until they are fifty. There may be a general trend one way or the other but is not what matters.

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I really do feel for you - it can be so difficult to get somebody out of your head - nature made us that way!

There are lots of nice guys - they are just younger!!! I discovered this a few years ago and have had so much fun since that I don't want to get stuck with anybody for too long!

I find guys my age or older to be less fun and have more expectations. Yuck.

Good luck!

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This guy was 27- and I felt sooo old besides him! And I want to get married, kids, family...not now of course, after a couple of years. But I think a younger guy is more into just having fun- nothing serious...as I experienced with the last one. Which age would you recommend for "young" in my case (nearly 30)???

Groetjes & thanks for the good-luck-wishes!

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I am not being cruel or anything like that but if you feel that somebody that is 27 (when you are almost 30) is too young then perhaps you have other issues.

I would not consider this an age difference at all. When I say younger I mean around their late teens/early twenties.

If you want a serious relationship, however, then age is of no importance. People mature at different times in their lives.

Some people are ready to be serious when they are twenty and others are not ready until they are fifty. There may be a general trend one way or the other but is not what matters.

Have you been cradle-snatching Flippant?

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Have you been cradle-snatching Flippant?

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I don't think so.

Hello Friend ,
I can understand your position. Don’t worry, at all. You can refer to any of the innumerable sites on the internet. Modern Man is a site which I recently came across while surfing the net. The site has excellent dating tips on offer. I am sure you too will find the site very helpful.

If you want something, do something. Don't think too much.

This is an interesting discussion. Could I ask a vaguely related question: I am Canadian. I see this Dutch guy around quite a bit through an organization that we're both active in. We've had a couple really good conversations. I feel like there is chemistry and I'd like to pursue it. In Canada, I would have expected him to ask for my number by now and if he hadn't I would assume he was not that into me or whatever.

But he's Dutch... so maybe it's different. Does he expect me to ask him out? Does he just think he'll keep seeing me at events see how things develop from there. This country is so diferent. Or maybe the interest is all on my side?

Funny that you quoted the answer you are looking for..

Do not try to second guess his motives or wishes. He may be shy, just divorced or simply not very perceptive. Or very interested but also a faithful husband. The point is, you just don't know.

So my advice is that during the next event, you ask him on a date. No man anywhere was ever insulted by a woman showing an interest in him. If it does freak him out that a woman initiates, consider yourself lucky that you escaped this immature boy.

Good luck!
Leo