Can I just say that I have been reading all these messages put on here from a whole load of whinging poms (as the Aussies would call us) with very few encouraging ones. I am currently living in the UK with my Dutch boyfriend aftr having lived in different countries together and he has decided that he would like to go back home within a year. As he gave it a go here its only fair I am willing to go over there and try it. But I have been close to dumping him after reading all these messages ( my fear has slowly crept up on me).

I am sure there are many English girls out there comfortably settled with their Dutch boyfriends would you advise me to throw caution to the wind and give it a go with a positive attitude? i am interested to hear of anyones personal experiences. I have always been sick of the UK hence having lived in different places and heard good things about the way of life in Holland. I am even learning Dutch slowly here so as to prepare myself. Are Dutch people really so rude, selfish, arrogant as everyone says or is it because all the ex-pats never bother to learn their langugae and learn their culture/ways as they expect everyone to do so when they come to the UK?Surely the problem does not lie so much with a place but deep down with a persons ability and effort to adjust/intergrate. And after having spent a year in the Czech Republic, I don't think any one can be ruder than the Czechs sorry to say!

'Are Dutch people really so rude, selfish, arrogant as everyone says or is it because all the ex-pats never bother to learn their langugae and learn their culture/ways as they expect everyone to do so when they come to the UK?'

I speak fluent Dutch with a Dutch accent, have travelled throughout the world, and can quite safely say I have never come across such an ill-mannered, uncultured bunch as the majority of Dutch people. Luckily there are exceptions to the rule and I choose to surround myself with them. So I guess it depends on the crowd of people around you.

You said you travelled the world so can I safely asume that you have experienced living long term in other countries with different nationalities so as to come to the conclusion. Obviously travelling and living in a place are competely different. i would be interestd to know where you have lived if so.


I speak fluent Dutch with a Dutch accent, have travelled throughout the world, and can quite safely say I have never come across such an ill-mannered, uncultured bunch as the majority of Dutch people. Luckily there are exceptions to the rule and I choose to surround myself with them. So I guess it depends on the crowd of people around you.


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Are Dutch people really so rude, selfish, arrogant as everyone says or is it because all the ex-pats never bother to learn their langugae and learn their culture/ways ************************************

Where did you get this idea from?

bluebilli7,

I'm one of those people they hate to hear from. <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

No, all the people aren't rude etc.... it depends on where you live. Amsterdam is prime 'rude territory' although I never have problems when I go there to visit.

Hey, just dropped off a TON of stuff at the local Salvation Army after numerous phone calls (got lost <img src="../images/emoticons/bbutbut.gif"> ) and when I arrived everyone was so glad to see me, they all gave me the 3 kiss thing and served me a cup of coffee. <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

This kind of stuff happens to me a lot.

There are nice people EVERYWHERE and as long as you're nice ... they will find you. <img src="../images/emoticons/yalaugh.gif">

Don't even worry yourself.

The things you need to worry about are:

1. Learning Dutch
2. Learning Dutch
3. Learning Dutch
and no matter what ... always Learn Dutch.

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Are Dutch people really so rude, selfish, arrogant as everyone says or is it because all the ex-pats never bother to learn their langugae and learn their culture/ways ************************************

Where did you get this idea from?

What idea, that ex pats don't learn others ways? i am just wondering as I have lived in other non-English speaking places where people have never bothered to learn the langugae/ways etc and moaned all the time. So after reading nothing but whinges on these posts (OK not all from Brits) I wanted to know if they did learn the langugae etc. Not many people with the negative comments have said that they speak Dutch.
And the idea that they are all lazy, selfish etc has come from all the messages so I was trying to gain a clearer picture befor i do decide to move somewhere which has been described by some one as hell on earth! that sounds really harsh........

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Oulovet1

Thanks for that, that makes the most sense. of course if your nice theres no reason why people shouldn't be the same to you. I never found my boyfriends friends etc to be rude so I am hoping that all will be well when I arrive over there.

bluebilli7,

I'm one of those people hate to hear from.

No all the people aren't rude etc.... it depends on where you live. Amsterdam is prime 'rude territory' although I never have problems when I go there to visit.

Hey, just dropped off a TON of stuff at the local Salvation Army after numerous phone calls (got lost ) and when I arrived everyone was so glad to see me, they all gave me the 3 kiss thing and served me a cup of coffee.

This kind of stuff happens to me a lot.

There are nice people EVERYWHERE and as long as you're nice ... they will find you.

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Oulovet1

Thanks for that, that makes the most sense. of course if your nice theres no reason why people shouldn't be the same to you. I never found my boyfriends friends etc to be rude so I am hoping that all will be well when I arrive over there.

bluebilli7,

I'm one of those people hate to hear from.

No all the people aren't rude etc.... it depends on where you live. Amsterdam is prime 'rude territory' although I never have problems when I go there to visit.

Hey, just dropped off a TON of stuff at the local Salvation Army after numerous phone calls (got lost ) and when I arrived everyone was so glad to see me, they all gave me the 3 kiss thing and served me a cup of coffee.

This kind of stuff happens to me a lot.

There are nice people EVERYWHERE and as long as you're nice ... they will find you.

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I really wish you the best of luck.

No, life is not perfect here .. but it's not perfect in the States (where I'm from) either. <img src="../images/emoticons/bbutbut.gif">

If ya want my views just drop me a line at <a href="mailto:ouloveit@hotmail.com" Target="_BLANK">ouloveit@hotmail.com</a>.

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Are Dutch people really so rude, selfish, arrogant as everyone says or is it because all the ex-pats never bother to learn their langugae and learn their culture/ways ************************************

Where did you get this idea from?

What idea, that ex pats don't learn others ways? i am just wondering as I have lived in other non-English speaking places where people have never bothered to learn the langugae/ways etc and moaned all the time. So after reading nothing but whinges on these posts (OK not all from Brits) I wanted to know if they did learn the langugae etc. Not many people with the negative comments have said that they speak Dutch.
And the idea that they are all lazy, selfish etc has come from all the messages so I was trying to gain a clearer picture befor i do decide to move somewhere which has been described by some one as hell on earth! that sounds really harsh........

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In that case I think you should just come here with an open mind and decide for yourself! The UK isnt so far away that its difficult to go back if you dont like it here, and you can find out for yourself if you can fit in here or not. Clearly many people have different experiences depending on where they are, who they know, what they do, and of course their general outlook on life. Dont forget also that lots of people post here just to let off a bit of steam, and a complaint does NOT have to equal hating where they live! You could however also keep in mind that many people posting on this board actually have learned dutch, so its not always simply a case of ignorance or arrogance.

I think that you sound sensible enough to make up your own mind, so forget about taking on board any preconceptions. You know your partner and have obviously met his friends etc, so you can judge from that more easily than you can from the posts on a message board - you shouldnt let those sway you either way while you could be experiencing life in the NL for yourself! In fact if you dont try it you will never know for sure <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

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Yes you are right in what you are saying. Funny though, its natural to be worried when you deciede to commit and move to your partners country of origin. I have lived in other places but they were for a year or two. This would be more long term and because its a commitment it makes it even more nerve racking. Funny thing is, my partner misses Holland so much and gets homesick alot even though hes fluent in English, completely understands the English humour and sarcasm and loves the beer etc. He has wanted to leave here so many times and can only hack it for anothr year he said. I think its more cause he misses his family etc than because of the UK. Also I am British born of Greek origin so I have had the best of both Britihs and Greek cultural upbringing so I have always felt a bit in limbo even though I grew up in London. So perhaps adapting to another culture and taking it on board wouldn't be so bad after all!!!!!!!!!! Yes making up your own mind is the best way but it is amusing and scary at the same time to read about other peopls thoughts.



Are Dutch people really so rude, selfish, arrogant as everyone says or is it because all the ex-pats never bother to learn their langugae and learn their culture/ways ************************************

Where did you get this idea from?

What idea, that ex pats don't learn others ways? i am just wondering as I have lived in other non-English speaking places where people have never bothered to learn the langugae/ways etc and moaned all the time. So after reading nothing but whinges on these posts (OK not all from Brits) I wanted to know if they did learn the langugae etc. Not many people with the negative comments have said that they speak Dutch.
And the idea that they are all lazy, selfish etc has come from all the messages so I was trying to gain a clearer picture befor i do decide to move somewhere which has been described by some one as hell on earth! that sounds really harsh........

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In that case I think you should just come here with an open mind and decide for yourself! The UK isnt so far away that its difficult to go back if you dont like it here, and you can find out for yourself if you can fit in here or not. Clearly many people have different experiences depending on where they are, who they know, what they do, and of course their general outlook on life. Dont forget also that lots of people post here just to let off a bit of steam, and a complaint does NOT have to equal hating where they live! You could however also keep in mind that many people posting on this board actually have learned dutch, so its not always simply a case of ignorance or arrogance.

I think that you sound sensible enough to make up your own mind, so forget about taking on board any preconceptions. You know your partner and have obviously met his friends etc, so you can judge from that more easily than you can from the posts on a message board - you shouldnt let those sway you either way while you could be experiencing life in the NL for yourself! In fact if you dont try it you will never know for sure

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I think you´ve answered your own question too...you said you´ve been sick of the UK for a long time. So, you won´t miss it too much then will you ? I, on the other hand, cried my eyes out when I left the UK...and have felt extremely out of place here for nearly 4 years. If you´re coming over here with no ties and no regrets for leaving the UK then go for it and good luck to you !

Having a Dutch boyfriend is always a good thing too, worlds apart from English blokes ;o)

Personal comment based on personal experience: just make sure you don't plan on having a baby in this country (unless you're into giving birth at home or in a log cabin with no running water or electricity, that is). Everything is one can probably get used to. After 6 years in London and 2 years here in Holland (thinking life here was going to be somehow better, calmer, gentler) and I really wish I'd been better informed before I got here. Only my 2 cents worth though....

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And after having spent a year in the Czech Republic, I don't think any one can be ruder than the Czechs sorry to say!
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Come to Amsterdam!

May I ask something?
When you lived in the Chech Republic, did you fluently speak their language, or are you one of those,who say " Chechs people really so rude, selfish, arrogant" however you "never bother[ed] to learn their language and learn their culture/way? "

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You said you travelled the world so can I safely asume that you have experienced living long term in other countries with different nationalities so as to come to the conclusion. Obviously travelling and living in a place are competely different. i would be interestd to know where you have lived if so.

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Lived in; Switzerland, Germany, UK, Nigeria, Netherlands

Travelled to about 70 different countries worldwide, including long journeys and working (>1 month) in Italy, India, USA, Canada, Australia, Denmark, France.

To be fair, it depends which region of NL you look at. In the east and south east people generally treat each other like human beings. In the west of the country, well, they don't.

To Indyvidual

Yes i did try to learn Czech and tried to speak it with them in a number of every day situations. Whether I spoke it fluently or not is irrelevant. I was laughed at, swore at and blatantly ignored!! I also experinced racist abuse as well but thats anotehr story anyway.
So to answer I did try to learn their language etc but still found them incredibly rude

May I ask something?
When you lived in the Chech Republic, did you fluently speak their language, or are you one of those,who say " Chechs people really so rude, selfish, arrogant" however you "never bother[ed] to learn their language and learn their culture/way? "

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Well Bluebilli7, if you are from Greek origins the Dutch way of life is completely opposite. My Greek friend was horrified on a day to day basis when she lived in Holland.

The Dutch are quite closed, cliquey and stingy. The normal household will start their dinner at 5.30/6.00pm and be finished by 6.30pm and be in bed early. Even the Greek restaurant I frequent here has to open at 5.30pm and close at 11.00pm to adapt to the Dutch eating habits.

I'm astonished when I walk pass restaurants on my way home from work and they are packed at 6.00pm - by 9.00pm they are empty and ready to close!

Always have your Agenda (diary) ready because you go nowhere without an 'appointment' - this includes visiting friends and family. People's agendas are sometimes filled 3 months in advance and it's not appreciated if you ring somebody the day before and invite them to dinner or a drink.

The food here is the strangest I've ever seen - me and my Greek friend used to howl with laughter in our work's canteen - we never knew it was possible to deep fry rice and noodles!

It's very damp here due to the fact some parts are under sea level - same weather as the UK but very damp - lots and lots of mossies from April to November!

You can find clubs and restaurants that open later in Amsterdam - but if you live outside the capital it's very much early to rise and early to bed (as there is nothing to do socially).

I have never been fully accepted by my Dutch husband's circle of friends - which is OK with me because I have found out that it's quite normal. To accept an outsider fully takes years and years (by that time you have made your own expats friends).

I wish you all the best of luck in your choice.

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The food here is the strangest I've ever seen - me and my Greek friend used to howl with laughter in our work's canteen - we never knew it was possible to deep fry rice and noodles!

It's very damp here due to the fact some parts are under sea level - same weather as the UK but very damp - lots and lots of mossies from April to November!

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I've never had the pleasure of eating deep fried noodles but if you say so..
The UK must be champion deep fat fryers of the world. ever had a deep fat fried mars bar for example?countless possiblities.. <img src="../images/emoticons/ywink.gif">

on weather,I wouldn't say it's the same climate as the UK either.Holland's a lot warmer in summertime but a lot colder in winter. Also much of the rain drops over england and wales before it reaches the dutch coast so therefore holland has a lot less rain.

To Monkey nuts

Yes I am lucky to be of Greek origin but being born and having grownup in London, I've had the best oy both worlds. Still in England its the same thing really although people end up being in the pub till 11 and then of course they have no choice but to retire home after that (unless they go onto clubs). I am all tired out with all that now.

I think if you were coming directly form Southern Euroipe to anywhere in the North it would be a huge culture shock. Luckily i don't have dinnr at ten like the Southern Europeans but 5.30! Thats pushing it. Aren't people at work at this time? Cause they always are over here in London, working away......................

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The food here is the strangest I've ever seen - me and my Greek friend used to howl with laughter in our work's canteen - we never knew it was possible to deep fry rice and noodles!

It's very damp here due to the fact some parts are under sea level - same weather as the UK but very damp - lots and lots of mossies from April to November!

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I've never had the pleasure of eating deep fried noodles but if you say so..
The UK must be champion deep fat fryers of the world. ever had a deep fat fried mars bar for example?countless possiblities..

on weather,I wouldn't say it's the same climate as the UK either.Holland's a lot warmer in summertime but a lot colder in winter. Also much of the rain drops over england and wales before it reaches the dutch coast so therefore holland has a lot less rain.

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You can't compare Holland to the UK - Holland would fit into Wales so obviously a lot smaller! My brother lives in East Anglia and I can't count the amount of times I have been on the phone to him and it's been pissing down with rain here and sunshine there.

Holland has had years of mild winters - ask any native! The weather normally comes from the North of the UK and Scotland across to Holland, which is normally a lot wetter than the south.

Deep fried mars bars were a champion of the Scots by the way - not the English.

In London we have the most amount of michilin star restaurants outside of Paris and some of the best chefs in Europe.

Well bluebilli7 if you enjoy eating your dinner at 5.30pm then you are going to fit in very well in Holland.

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To Monkey nuts

Yes I am lucky to be of Greek origin but being born and having grownup in London, I've had the best oy both worlds. Still in England its the same thing really although people end up being in the pub till 11 and then of course they have no choice but to retire home after that (unless they go onto clubs). I am all tired out with all that now.

I think if you were coming directly form Southern Euroipe to anywhere in the North it would be a huge culture shock. Luckily i don't have dinnr at ten like the Southern Europeans but 5.30! Thats pushing it. Aren't people at work at this time? Cause they always are over here in London, working away......................

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But you can still walk into a restaurant a 10.30pm and still get served! At the weekend I don't want to have to eat my dinner at 6.00pm! Prefer it to be slightly more relaxed.

As you disliked the UK so much I think that you are going to settle down nicely in Holland.

Holland will possibly, with a lot of luck, be like the UK in another ten years or so when the shops and the way of life, the things we take for granted there, catch up here! As for the climate...this must be one of the most damp climates on the planet, it s not possible to have many good hair days here! Anyway, I suppose the point of comparing is pointless really as the Netherlands is a very small country with a lot of catching up to do and you can t really equate it with the UK! Although I should end on a positive point...let me think...the Chinese food is okay but I cannot think of any ''Dutch cuisine'' that many of us could rave about.

Most offices,shops and other work places don't close till 18:00 and as holland is a country of commuters.most people take at least 30 mins to get home but an hour is more applicable for most of us so how do you explain everyone in holland eating at 5:30???do they eat at work before they come home?

Most people eat between 18:30 and 19:00 and yes that a lot earlier then the south europeans but then again we don't have a siesta in the afternoon here. And no dutchies do not go to bed straight after diner as you implied.

btw. it's better for you're digestion to eat early rather then at 21:00 or later.

...some people moan about everything

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Can I just say that I have been reading all these messages put on here from a whole load of whinging poms (as the Aussies would call us) with very few encouraging ones. I am currently living in the UK with my Dutch boyfriend aftr having lived in different countries together and he has decided that he would like to go back home within a year. As he gave it a go here its only fair I am willing to go over there and try it. But I have been close to dumping him after reading all these messages ( my fear has slowly crept up on me).

I am sure there are many English girls out there comfortably settled with their Dutch boyfriends would you advise me to throw caution to the wind and give it a go with a positive attitude? i am interested to hear of anyones personal experiences. I have always been sick of the UK hence having lived in different places and heard good things about the way of life in Holland. I am even learning Dutch slowly here so as to prepare myself. Are Dutch people really so rude, selfish, arrogant as everyone says or is it because all the ex-pats never bother to learn their langugae and learn their culture/ways as they expect everyone to do so when they come to the UK?Surely the problem does not lie so much with a place but deep down with a persons ability and effort to adjust/intergrate. And after having spent a year in the Czech Republic, I don't think any one can be ruder than the Czechs sorry to say!

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You should come here and spend a year or two...then you will really appreciate going back to the UK, you will not want to leave again. Yes - much of what you have heard and read here is true. Of course there are one or two positive points...but they are not always easy to bring to mind. Think carefully before making the move!!! If I had my time over I would not have moved to the Netherlands!

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You can't compare Holland to the UK - Holland would fit into Wales so obviously a lot smaller! My brother lives in East Anglia and I can't count the amount of times I have been on the phone to him and it's been pissing down with rain here and sunshine there.

Holland has had years of mild winters - ask any native! The weather normally comes from the North of the UK and Scotland across to Holland, which is normally a lot wetter than the south.

**hmm we have had a lot of mild winters but our weather comes from the south-west or south east due to weather currents.from the north actualy hardly ever happens.**

Deep fried mars bars were a champion of the Scots by the way - not the English.

**right,I've never tried it myself but I thought it was a UK-wide thing.**

In London we have the most amount of michilin star restaurants outside of Paris and some of the best chefs in Europe.

** yes london is a truly big city in every way,still you wouldn't get me to live there.top chefs or not**

Well bluebilli7 if you enjoy eating your dinner at 5.30pm then you are going to fit in very well in Holland.

**read post above**
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Most offices,shops and other work places don't close till 18:00 and as holland is a country of commuters.most people take at least 30 mins to get home but an hour is more applicable for most of us so how do you explain everyone in holland eating at 5:30???do they eat at work before they come home?

Most people eat between 18:30 and 19:00 and yes that a lot earlier then the south europeans but then again we don't have a siesta in the afternoon here. And no dutchies do not go to bed straight after diner as you implied.

btw. it's better for you're digestion to eat early rather then at 21:00 or later.

...some people moan about everything

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I'm not moaning - I'm stating facts!

A huge amount of people work part-time here - or get to work by 7.00am and leave by 3.00pm (at least where I work), which leaves them plenty of time to be in a restaurant for 5.30pm.

Anyway in my area - The Jordaan - the cafes are packed everyday - I have no idea where the people get the money from or the time - but from 11.00 in the morning till 12.00 in the evening they are packed with locals.

Something to do with 'stress' leave maybe or the 'bad back' syndrome?

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Well bluebilli7 if you enjoy eating your dinner at 5.30pm then you are going to fit in very well in Holland.




i never said i did eat dinner at 5.30. that's pushing it I said. I am still at work then, unfortunatley.
Seems like I started a debate on the culinary delights? and the eating habits of the UK and Holland unintentionally.

Thanks, now I know what time I am expected to eat dinner there!
Still after reading everything on here the least of my worries.
I think I'll stop there now cause if I carry on reading everything on this entire board I may as well go home today (at 6), give my boyfriend a one way ticket back to Holland and find another bloke. Cause he doesn't want to stay here thats for sure and I may never get over there if I keep reading.

I am also one of the few and far between "positive" poster on this forum.
I am not English and male on top of that, so I don't don't if my views would be representative for you, but anyway here goes...

Looking broadly, I find the Dutch to be no different than anyone else, they have their fair share of virtues and vices. In the end, it'll boil down to what you like and don't like (maybe dislike)
I know enough expats who like it here. You'll probably go through ups & downs, probably every couple of years. Some on this forum would continue on their way downwards though (hehehe).

Having sketched that scenario, I also know quite a few "Anglo-Saxon" women (UK, US, Canadian) women in particular, who detest it here.

In the end I would say "Jump in, the water's fine"

In the end I would say "Jump in, the water's fine"

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couldn't resist on a last note.
Thanks lalar I might just do that!!!
And I'll end it there on that positive note but no doubt when I do come over I'll be back on this board, hopefully with good things to say for my own sake and sanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I live in the middle of Holland and agree with what most have said, Dutch outside of the Amsterdam area are quite nice. I even got talking to a couple of people today while out with my son, must be the good weather improving people´s moods ! As for my Dutch family here, they´re lovely )

Short of the world power the Haag exudes, and the memories of my fathers staunch disposition "maes/maas/maastricht" it is much like shopping at wal-mart “nothing to brag about…

Quote:like in the one post like the one said it depends on who you are around as far as the dutch and who you choose to surround urself with friends. there are those that are that way but there those who arent. and there are gonna be those who judge u on appearance alone and those that dont. so its partly who u choose as having as friends and how u choose to handle those that are arrogant rude and selfish. if u dont like that kind of behavior then screw those who act that way. as a american i have ran into both and choose to ignore those who act rude crude arrogant. and i carry that philosphy with me my whole life even in high school with people who i went to school with if they didnt want to get to know me then why should i bother with them. and sometimes people change as they get older and some dont. so no matter where u are in the world there are gonna be people who are rude selfish and arrogant and those who arent so choose for those who make u feel good to associate with. thats the best advice i can give u.

Can I just say that I have been reading all these messages put on here from a whole load of whinging poms (as the Aussies would call us) with very few encouraging ones. I am currently living in the UK with my Dutch boyfriend aftr having lived in different countries together and he has decided that he would like to go back home within a year. As he gave it a go here its only fair I am willing to go over there and try it. But I have been close to dumping him after reading all these messages ( my fear has slowly crept up on me).

I am sure there are many English girls out there comfortably settled with their Dutch boyfriends would you advise me to throw caution to the wind and give it a go with a positive attitude? i am interested to hear of anyones personal experiences. I have always been sick of the UK hence having lived in different places and heard good things about the way of life in Holland. I am even learning Dutch slowly here so as to prepare myself. Are Dutch people really so rude, selfish, arrogant as everyone says or is it because all the ex-pats never bother to learn their langugae and learn their culture/ways as they expect everyone to do so when they come to the UK?Surely the problem does not lie so much with a place but deep down with a persons ability and effort to adjust/intergrate. And after having spent a year in the Czech Republic, I don't think any one can be ruder than the Czechs sorry to say!

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bluebilli7, it seems to me you started this thread to be reassured rather than to hear people's opinion. Asking for reassurance often backfires in my experience. You won't know until you try, no-one is going to be able to tell you if you'll like it or not. I wouldn't worry too much, the UK is only an hour away if you get homesick. Moreover, being an EU citizen you will be spared the insult to humanity which is the Dutch immigration system. Just give it a try, and stop asking people for their opinion when you don't really want to hear it in the first place.

I was actually genuinely interested in peoples opinions and expereicnes rather than asking for simple reassuarnce cause I am hardly going to get that and accept it from people i really don't know. I wanted all round objections, might have explained myself wrong. Am at work and not having much to do at the mo so passing my time reading everyones commenst and writng (although I said i wouldn't anymore) so thank you for your view.



bluebilli7, it seems to me you started this thread to be reassured rather than to hear people's opinion. Asking for reassurance often backfires in my experience. You won't know until you try, no-one is going to be able to tell you if you'll like it or not. I wouldn't worry too much, the UK is only an hour away if you get homesick. Moreover, being an EU citizen you will be spared the insult to humanity which is the Dutch immigration system. Just give it a try, and stop asking people for their opinion when you don't really want to hear it in the first place.

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Well Bluebilli7, if you are from Greek origins the Dutch way of life is completely opposite. My Greek friend was horrified on a day to day basis when she lived in Holland.

The Dutch are quite closed, cliquey and stingy. The normal household will start their dinner at 5.30/6.00pm and be finished by 6.30pm and be in bed early. Even the Greek restaurant I frequent here has to open at 5.30pm and close at 11.00pm to adapt to the Dutch eating habits.

I'm astonished when I walk pass restaurants on my way home from work and they are packed at 6.00pm - by 9.00pm they are empty and ready to close!

Always have your Agenda (diary) ready because you go nowhere without an 'appointment' - this includes visiting friends and family. People's agendas are sometimes filled 3 months in advance and it's not appreciated if you ring somebody the day before and invite them to dinner or a drink.

The food here is the strangest I've ever seen - me and my Greek friend used to howl with laughter in our work's canteen - we never knew it was possible to deep fry rice and noodles!

It's very damp here due to the fact some parts are under sea level - same weather as the UK but very damp - lots and lots of mossies from April to November!

You can find clubs and restaurants that open later in Amsterdam - but if you live outside the capital it's very much early to rise and early to bed (as there is nothing to do socially).

I have never been fully accepted by my Dutch husband's circle of friends - which is OK with me because I have found out that it's quite normal. To accept an outsider fully takes years and years (by that time you have made your own expats friends).

I wish you all the best of luck in your choice.

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Well .. ahh... I agree with Swede about the natural childbirth thingy. NEVER! Hee hee! (That's why God made drugs in the first place!! <img src="../images/emoticons/yalaugh.gif"> )

And Bluebilli7 is correct about a lot of the 'anal' behavior noted but .. you don't have to take on EVERY custom. Just let it pass.

Some things will be easy to accept, some difficult (but you get used to it) and some downright impossible to get used to. That's life.

You have to have the 'liberty' in your relationship to eat dinner at 10:00 if you want to but ... (honestly on a work night who wants to eat so late only to turn around a go to sleep?)

Hee hee! You know what I mean .. you have to adapt Dutch customs to what YOU like.

I tried the Agenda thing for the first year .. drove me nuts so ... I just don't use it anymore. If you make expat friends (and most likely you will <img src="../images/emoticons/ywink.gif"> ) you will have a spontaneous social life. Your Dutch friends will just have to get used to the way you do things if they want to be your friend.

The bike thingy ...ummm I tried it .. and that brand new bike has been sitting right where I left it 3 years ago.

In the shed. <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

Just don't bike if you don't want to. There's no law about this. Lots of my Dutch neighbors NEVER bike anywhere and only use their cars ... so don't feel you have to if you don't want to.

I live in Amersfoort and there are pubs open to 2 - 3 in the morning ... I think there are a few in every town/city actually.

But if I want to 'party', I go into Amsterdam or Den Haag etc for the evening ... then I just drive home afterwards ... so where's the problem?

*** The key is what kind of Dutch guy you're with.***

If your partner is fairly 'worldly' he's not gonna expect you to move here and turn into a little Dutch girl sitting around trying making stamppot all evening. <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

(So you need to discuss this with him now .. before you move.)

I don't think you should expect to adapt to EVERYTHING Dutch.

I think you should expect to 'understand' the customs and culture, be able to communicate and IF you wish to participate in something ... go ahead .. overwise just pass.

Other than that... when you see odd things in the Dutch culture ... just shrug it off.

Hey, as long as your partner doesn't turn into a dictator ...WHO the heck CARES!

I was laughing at what you wrote cause people keep talking about this agenda thing. All the times I was in Holland when mypartner lived there, we always used to just turn up univited at his friends houses and they always welcomd us no problem. In fact I am used to the Greeks in London who would never turn up uninvited at someones home so I thought it was funny when everyone was talking about the agneda thng as i never encountered it there. Looks like I might fit in after all! ( Us Greeks have to invite people first cause we have to put on a feast ready to shove down our guests gobs, different cultures ay very amusing!!!!)


Well Bluebilli7, if you are from Greek origins the Dutch way of life is completely opposite. My Greek friend was horrified on a day to day basis when she lived in Holland.

The Dutch are quite closed, cliquey and stingy. The normal household will start their dinner at 5.30/6.00pm and be finished by 6.30pm and be in bed early. Even the Greek restaurant I frequent here has to open at 5.30pm and close at 11.00pm to adapt to the Dutch eating habits.

I'm astonished when I walk pass restaurants on my way home from work and they are packed at 6.00pm - by 9.00pm they are empty and ready to close!

Always have your Agenda (diary) ready because you go nowhere without an 'appointment' - this includes visiting friends and family. People's agendas are sometimes filled 3 months in advance and it's not appreciated if you ring somebody the day before and invite them to dinner or a drink.

The food here is the strangest I've ever seen - me and my Greek friend used to howl with laughter in our work's canteen - we never knew it was possible to deep fry rice and noodles!

It's very damp here due to the fact some parts are under sea level - same weather as the UK but very damp - lots and lots of mossies from April to November!

You can find clubs and restaurants that open later in Amsterdam - but if you live outside the capital it's very much early to rise and early to bed (as there is nothing to do socially).

I have never been fully accepted by my Dutch husband's circle of friends - which is OK with me because I have found out that it's quite normal. To accept an outsider fully takes years and years (by that time you have made your own expats friends).

I wish you all the best of luck in your choice.

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Well .. ahh... I agree with Swede about the natural childbirth thingy. NEVER! Hee hee! (That's why God made drugs in the first place!! )

And Bluebilli7 is correct about a lot of the 'anal' behavior noted but .. you don't have to take on EVERY custom. Just let it pass.

Some things will be easy to accept, some difficult (but you get used to it) and some downright impossible to get used to. That's life.

You have to have the 'liberty' in your relationship to eat dinner at 10:00 if you want to but ... (honestly on a work night who wants to eat so late only to turn around a go to sleep?)

Hee hee! You know what I mean .. you have to adapt Dutch customs to what YOU like.

I tried the Agenda thing for the first year .. drove me nuts so ... I just don't use it anymore. If you make expat friends (and most likely you will ) you will have a spontaneous social life. Your Dutch friends will just have to get used to the way you do things if they want to be your friend.

The bike thingy ...ummm I tried it .. and that brand new bike has been sitting right where I left it 3 years ago.

In the shed.

Just don't bike if you don't want to. There's no law about this. Lots of my Dutch neighbors NEVER bike anywhere and only use their cars ... so don't feel you have to if you don't want to.

I live in Amersfoort and there are pubs open to 2 - 3 in the morning ... I think there are a few in every town/city actually.

But if I want to 'party', I go into Amsterdam or Den Haag etc for the evening ... then I just drive home afterwards ... so where's the problem?

*** The key is what kind of Dutch guy you're with.***

If your partner is fairly 'worldly' he's not gonna expect you to move here and turn into a little Dutch girl sitting around trying making stamppot all evening.

(So you need to discuss this with him now .. before you move.)

I don't think you should expect to adapt to EVERYTHING Dutch.

I think you should expect to 'understand' the customs and culture, be able to communicate and IF you wish to participate in something ... go ahead .. overwise just pass.

Other than that... when you see odd things in the Dutch culture ... just shrug it off.

Hey, as long as your partner doesn't turn into a dictator ...WHO the heck CARES!


************************************

You were able to turn up 'uninvited' and welcomed in!

Oh boy ... your Dutchie's friends ARE different!

You'll be fine. <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

yes normally your friends will slam the door in your face when you don't have the right papers with you ,right ouloveit?

judging by your experiences you don't have friends ouloveit.Sometimes I call my dutch friends to tell them that I'm coming and when ,just to make sure there in and have got enough beer in the fridge. But when i come over uninvited I'm just asa welcome.

The whole "tell em you're coming in advance" issue is nothing special to the dutch.They just like to know when and who is coming so they can get extra drinks,food,snack or whatever in.

It's called hospitality.

"Are Dutch people really so rude, selfish, arrogant as everyone says"

As a society, yes.
Not necessarily each and everyone of them of course.

When you speak Dutch it's even worse because then you have no illusions any more.

Having said that, I should in all fairness, point out that it's not impossible to be relatively happy in Holland. (it is said ;-) )

A lot depends on your bf, in-laws and surroundings. (town/city/ countryside etc)

Good luck if you try it.
Try to be a bit thick skinned as many Dutch are blunt and seem to think that British manners amount to some kind of weakness. (Untill we give them a right telling off in their own language !)

Quote:
Try to be a bit thick skinned as many Dutch are blunt and seem to think that British manners amount to some kind of weakness. (Untill we give them a right telling off in their own language !)

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LOL, it's a shame all those well behaved britts leave there manners on the bedside table when they go abroad then..

qeueing is a NO-NO here but you'll find that out for yourself.law of the jungle here,and I love it.

The Dutch aren't really that bad at all,and certainly not any worse then what you'll find in britain.It's just different but you'll get used to it.

Integrator can I say that I have experienced soooo many rude Brits abroad and anyway every one knows that. i've always asked people abroad what their impressions are of Brits and they tend to have said that tehy find them rude. It does make me laugh how we talk about how well mannered the Brits are but I think many of them have obvioulsy been away from certain parts of their country too long. I am a Brit so I am not going to put anyone directly down but has anyone else mentioned the fact that we (excluding me of course) can be just as rude!! i find people who sing Rule Britannia in an extremely lood voice in another country downright rude and ignorant. Or is that just me? But then thats another issue..and this is the Dutch bashing forum isn't it!!!!!


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LOL, it's a shame all those well behaved britts leave there manners on the bedside table when they go abroad then..

Quote:

yes normally your friends will slam the door in your face when you don't have the right papers with you ,right ouloveit?

judging by your experiences you don't have friends ouloveit.Sometimes I call my dutch friends to tell them that I'm coming and when ,just to make sure there in and have got enough beer in the fridge. But when i come over uninvited I'm just asa welcome.

The whole "tell em you're coming in advance" issue is nothing special to the dutch.They just like to know when and who is coming so they can get extra drinks,food,snack or whatever in.

It's called hospitality.

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What the heck are you talking about?

As usual you have 'read into' my text whatever THE HECK you wanted to believe.

I was joking! DUH?

Quote:

I am a Brit so I am not going to put anyone directly down but has anyone else mentioned the fact that we (excluding me of course) can be just as rude!! i find people who sing Rule Britannia in an extremely lood voice in another country downright rude and ignorant. Or is that just me? But then thats another issue..and this is the Dutch bashing forum isn't it!!!!!


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Doesn't alcohol have a large part to play in the rude manner of Brits abroad? A lot of the time it's immature football thugs who make an arse of our country when abroad...

They make me cringe, they really do!

Quote:

Can I just say that I have been reading all these messages put on here from a whole load of whinging poms (as the Aussies would call us) with very few encouraging ones. I am currently living in the UK with my Dutch boyfriend aftr having lived in different countries together and he has decided that he would like to go back home within a year. As he gave it a go here its only fair I am willing to go over there and try it. But I have been close to dumping him after reading all these messages ( my fear has slowly crept up on me).

I am sure there are many English girls out there comfortably settled with their Dutch boyfriends would you advise me to throw caution to the wind and give it a go with a positive attitude? i am interested to hear of anyones personal experiences. I have always been sick of the UK hence having lived in different places and heard good things about the way of life in Holland. I am even learning Dutch slowly here so as to prepare myself. Are Dutch people really so rude, selfish, arrogant as everyone says or is it because all the ex-pats never bother to learn their langugae and learn their culture/ways as they expect everyone to do so when they come to the UK?Surely the problem does not lie so much with a place but deep down with a persons ability and effort to adjust/intergrate. And after having spent a year in the Czech Republic, I don't think any one can be ruder than the Czechs sorry to say!

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Advice is worthless in my opinion. You probably already know what you're going to do. After reading these forums you know what you'll be faced with.

It's not impossible, and one advantage is that you're not relocting so very far away. The disadvantage is that too many trips back will probably hinder your progress in the end.

Integrating here takes a lot of hard work. On your part. The Dutch won't do much for their part for some time, and this MAY include your husband's family.

But you won't know this until you go through it. No one can tell you you'll be happy here, or successful here, or feel like you fit in. No one can tell you that you'll be miserable here, either. They can only tell you what THEY know about themselves and what they read or know about others.

In the end only you can say it was a good or poor decision.

I can't believe you guys complain so much about Holland. What are you doing here? If it's so bad, why don't you just go back to where you came from???

hou je bek, man!

Quote:

I can't believe you guys complain so much about Holland. What are you doing here? If it's so bad, why don't you just go back to where you came from???

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Is this statement taught as part of the integration procedure? out of interest? <img src="../images/emoticons/ywink.gif">

To save some people some precious time, the Expatica administrators could add a "If you hate this country so much then get the h*ll out of here" button next to 'Submit' and 'Preview'. In addition to that, other posters could be given the option to indicate in their profile that they have no interest in reading "If you hate this country so much then get the h*ll out of here" posts, so that these do not need to be displayed on their screens anymore.

Je moet je smoel houden, lullo.

Je weet niks.



Quote:

I can't believe you guys complain so much about Holland. What are you doing here? If it's so bad, why don't you just go back to where you came from???

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Bluebilli

I'm a Brit who made the leap and like you, I was nervous. But if you love the guy, why not? The worse that can happen is you go back to the UK and pick up where you left off. Hopefully your boyfriend and his family will help you to settle into life over here, and its important that you maintain your circle of friends, not just the ones back home but making new ones. The hardest things have been the Dutch bureaucracy but you learn to live with it. Life here has its good and bad points. Its good if you can get a job before you come over as keeping some independence is important, and try and learn some Dutch before you come if you can. Finally, all I would say is give it a chance, but give it some time - good luck!