I am really lucky that my dogs love my baby. All has been great so far, but just the other day - dotty.. (the one that likes to eat kylie CDs) started to pretend to bonk the babies favourite teddy.. and I am afraid the baby is next.

should I just ignore this?

I don't have any real experience with dogs and babies, but I think you just need to be very cautious and never leave them alone. I've heard awful stories about dogs turning on kids unexpectedly. Maybe the dog was provoked, but children, even babies, will provoke animals. Just be careful.

HI R,

I am careful. but the dogs really are good with the baby. I can say,, look after baby and they won't leave him until I get back... sweet.

Just the shagging thing is getting to me - dotty is a girl so why is she humping a teddy. I am thinking of buying a dog vibrator for her incase she is sexually frustrated.

It may be a dominance thing. Maybe she is trying to assert her place in the "pecking order" since the baby has arrived?

now thats interesting camilla,

someone else told me that once -before the baby was born.

I will look into that - thanks

Bbr, everytime I read about your dogs it makes me cringe. Whatever you do please be careful for Kinny's sake. I hate the idea of the dogs being left alone with an infant.

BBR; One dog left alone with a baby is not good news. Two dogs left alone is a recipe for trouble. Please don't do it.

Even if they are very good natured and would just play with him - Kintan is not a doggy and would definitely get hurt. Can only second Vijfal and Kew and I rather not think about the naivity involved. And don´t forget if the dogs should ever do anything to the baby they´d be killed.

The fact that your dog humps a teddybear, or just something for that matter, is a sure sign of uncertainty of its place in the family. This is very often seen when a family expands or the opposite. That whether expansion with babies or other animals. What you need to do is to restore the hierachy in your entire family. Dogs only behave in this way when there is lack of leadership and the dog tries to crawl up in the hierachy. It has nothing to do with jealousy - dogs do not have that capability. There is a number of simple tricks to restore your leadership based on the dogs natural behaviour, meaning that violence is not part of the equation. But most important of it all, is that you have to realise that the dog is unaware of its place in the family and it is your responsability to guide the dog back to its place. It is not a big job, but you have to react.

Good luck

Don't risk it - dump the mutt. It's only an animal, low intelligence, liable to even less rational behaviour than, say, Dizzy.

Why insult the dog?

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Why insult the dog?

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YEAH, WOW, I've never head such anti-dog sentiments in my life....I couldn't stand them either until a year and a half ago when I got a puppy, and now I don't know how I ever got by without him. He has a way of turning a really crappy day into perspective.

I don't think they're so much anti-dog sentiments as pro-safety sentiments, especially where small children are involved. If possible, it's great to have pets around when kids are growing up, but where safety is concerned, parents should *always* err on the side of caution, even with a dog they trust to be good-natured around kids. There are many cases where a "good" dog has unexpectedly turned on kids, for no apparent reason. Would you rather face the short term sad/guilty feelings of having to impose stronger boundaries on a beloved pet, or the devastation of unanticipated injury or even death of a child from that pet reacting unpredictably?

I suppose you have a point. But it's hard to imagine my nine pound dog hurting a fly. He's even afraid of cats and stuffed animals! I guess when you have a larger dog whose breed is more aggressive by nature it becomes a real threat. I'm all for boundaries and pets knowing their place, but never in a million years would I entertain the idea that leaving the two alone to go to bathroom or answer the phone or something could be deadly... at least not with my pup.

Well that's the thing. Size doesn't necessarily indicate the level of danger. Even a tiny little dog like a chihuahua could do pretty bad damage to a baby's face, for example. And if your dog is scared of things like stuffed animals and cats, then that would give me even more cause for caution, because many violent reactions by animals stem from fear rather than outright aggression.

Basically, it comes down to this: animals may react unpredictably, purely out of instinct, before any sense of loyalty could prevent them. For that reason alone, small children should never be left alone with animals, no matter how much trust the owner feels they can place in the pet.

I refer to the statement I made earlier!

-ditto- that, M.

astraclaus, he will hurt the fly if he gets the chance and even eat it.

I'm sorry but I refuse to accept that.
Not that I'd employ my dog as the new
weekend babysitter, but I refuse to live in fear of such a sick thing happening. With all the other freak occurances we have to look out for in the world, this is not one I choose to
be too concerned with. I hope we can agree to disagree on that? Happy Monday everyone.

Your choice - I just prefer to eliminate risk rather than ignore it. I put a high weighting on this risk, you obviously do not. Fair enough.

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Your choice - I just prefer to eliminate risk rather than ignore it. I put a high weighting on this risk, you obviously do not. Fair enough.

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Very over the top reaction. Dogs have lived with humans for a long time, they are used to them, dogs generally could be trusted with small children and babies but and its a big but there are much worse dangers out there.

As for your dump the mutt statement, I am astounded.

I agree. I think we should start a new discussion called "Why having pets AND children is a good thing," though. Maybe people who aren't animal lovers would avoid that thread...

As I've said before, I don't think it's necessary to get rid of pets before having kids. My family has always had pets and I don't remember a single problem with them, while we were growing up.

But I do think it's necessary for both pets and kids to know what the boundaries are, and below a certain age, children should never be left alone with dogs (in particular large ones) and I would say also even cats and others. Little kids can be pretty rough and a surprise pulled tail could lead to a bite or scratch or worse.

I think there are some pets you should get rid of before having children---any that you might have the slightest concern about, for one. Given the right provocation, any animal can turn on someone. The point is to be vigilant and not assume Muffy isn't going to harm a fly. I once lived next door to people who owned a mean Chow. One night they tied him in the garage we both shared (without informing me), and when I went to my car in the morning the dog came after me. I ran and his leash finally gave out. I know he would've attacked me. This dog not only bit a visiting friend of theirs, but the owner himself was awakened in the middle of the night once with the dog on top of him growling in his face. And guess what, when their baby was born, the dog stayed. I moved shortly thereafter. Risky behavior.

All I am saying is that (a good natured) dog or a cat can´t be trust more than a 2-year-old child. - Would you leave a 2-year-old alone with a baby?
Every experienced parent knows how painful it can be "being played with by a 2-year-old" - not because they are mean but simply that´s the way they are.

If a dog is playful and loving with a baby he´ll play and caress the baby as if it were a puppy - that´s normal but not adequate. Don´t you think that a baby is much more delicate and helpless than a puppy?

Not leaving a dog with a baby is just plain common sense.

Det, you expressed my sentiments exactly and more eloquantly than my previous "prop-forward" style.

Not leaving them together is common sense, "dump the mutt" sentiment is not.

All I am saying is that I personaqlly would not have a dog in the house where there is a baby or small child. I would find the dog a new home.

Don't take me literally, Monty. By dumping I do not mean abandoning it nor would I intend eating it and sitting on the bog!

Why bother having a dog at all if children are part of your plans and you don't think they can live together? Grown dogs are not exactly in high demand, not like puppies. They end up in a kennel and can be put to sleep if no one wants them after some time passes. In essence, the dump the mutt sentiment wasn't too far off...

"Why bother having a dog at all if children are part of your plans and you don't think they can live together?"
People may have a dog first and then later in life they may feel they would like to have a cup of their own species.

Indeed Det. Then it is necessary to make your choices. Dump mutt, keep mutt, dump baby.... mmmmm!

The bottom line is, if you already have a dog, the decision may be hard. As I do not allow non-human mammals into my house, unless they are dead and ready for the pot, then I had no choice to make.

However, when asked my opinion, I would choose baby every time.

Radical idea I know, but you know you could just apologise.......

Brews, old chap, to whom are you speaking? If me, I have nowt to apologise for. Just my opinion, which has not changed.

You don't have to apologise for your opinion Marcel. Its yours and you're free to it.

But if you choose to voice it and it causes offence, for example, what then?

Fair do's, but I had not realised I had offended someone! If I have, I apologise unreservedly.

Pants. Everyone has different sensitivity levels, if someone takes exception to someone elses posting on a public bulletin board then its their problem. Taking offence from an internet posting is like chatting up a hooker in a brothel, not worth the effort....

I'm with Marcel 100% on this, there is no way I'd have to think twice, the dog goes....

Wow, the expats in Italy are so much nicer to each other than you guys. Maybe the grass isn't greener on the other side of the border....at least not for my cute little mutt who I'd trust with my life <img src="../images/emoticons/bbutbut.gif">

Exactly what is it that has upset you Astra ?

Marcel and Dizzy would dump their dogs (if they had one) not yours !! You can continue to trust your life to your cute little mutt, no one objects to that.

Nothing has me upset, but after a few weeks of poking around in here it has become obvious to me that this is a tougher audience than the expats in Italy. We only talk about how to find vegemite and things like that <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif">

The thing is we know eachother. We have met on various occasions. Even Dizzy and Marcel are quite nice when met off-line though one usually wears shorts and the other one a beard. Have them with a pinch of salt.

Astra, tough ? This forum ?? Lately its been so sweet and sugary in here that I think we all are going to get diabetes !! I miss all the fights we used to have !!

You know "reality TV"? This is "Reality Cyber-space". It gets ugly from time to time, but it's really a great community. You should have been around last year during the Iraq "War"--that was tough. I'd rather have meaty topics and discussions everyday than to put up with a saccharine diet. P.S. I like dogs, but I'd move a potentially dangerous dog immediately. (That's really nothing to take offense at, don't you think?) And, yeah, I'd like to smack a few people around from time to time for their "opinions", but that's life, real life.

I'm all for telling it like it is, but it's nice when that can be done in a diplomatic way and without losing sight of good manners. I myself am afraid of big and/or aggressive dogs. Who am I trying to kid? However, I do believe there are certain signs that lead you to decide whether or not a dog is safe around kids. Lacking such a sign, I just wouldn't worry about it.
SO this is like a virtual reality show. I think I can get used to that.

To toughen yourself up you should visit the NL and German forum, see below.

"We only talk about how to find vegemite and things like that "...

Wow, sounds too exciting for me!

BTW, any dog is potentially dangerous.

This isn't a bad place. We do have our spicier moments but the dust always seems to settle afterwards. I have checked out the other expatica sites, and there are certainly worse out there!! In general, there's lots of room here for people to disagree with each other, as in any social group, but by and large we don't tend to tolerate personal attacks.

So Astra, don't take it to heart that others might disagree with your views on something - come and join in some other conversations and get to know us! And we can get to know you too <img src="../images/emoticons/ybigrin.gif">

Judging from the amount of postings this thread is quite successful. (grin)

How's this for tough:

Marcel, I think you've made that point already.

ps. Any human is potentially dangerous too. Maybe we shold cut off OUR contact with babies.

ha ha, Astra 4 Marcel 0.

Astra, I want to set you straight on something, not only has he a beard but he's also really short (and dresses like a hairdresser but I dont want to offend him)

Sit down or take your shorts and on your bike, Dizzy. Youre in my view I am watching this feud.