Would you advise your kids to learn Latin in this day and age? I listened to a discussion on the radio this morning about this.

I did the "little Latinum" at grammar school and had to pass the "big Latinum" at University. Though it was not my favourite subject at school it has been very helpful when learning French,Italian and even English. And not to forget I hardly ever have to use a dictionary for foreign words because I can usually deduce them.

Still I am not so sure whether I would want to put my son through the ordeal of having learn the endless amount of endings of a language he´ll never be able to speak.

What´s your oppinion on this?

I never had any Latin at school and it certainly hasn't prevented me from learning other languages. Unless your son wants to be a doctor, lawyer or scientist where he might actually use Latin terms, or if he just happens to enjoy learning Latin, I don't really see the point. In Europe, here is my hierarchy of "language usefulness", based on my business experience: (1) English, (2) French, (3) German, (4) Italian, (5) Spanish.

Latin is an important language, after all it is used for communication to some extent in the Vatican, there is a radio station in Finland that broadcasts in Latin, and it is useful for reading medieval texts !

At school I think Latin would be an easier language to learn, and to score good grades. Since it is not spoken you only have to learn how to read it !!!

ddet - I studied Latin at school and would promote it not necessarily as a template for language-learning or grammar, but for two more practical reasons.

- The kids who take latin at school (especially in the Belgian system) tend to be academically the strongest and most competitive; provided your child is strong enough to keep up, the benefits of being streamed within an academic, motivated peer group will not be restricted to latin classes, but all other classes that the stream follows. Among my economics/manufacturing undergrads in Antwerp, for example, you can more-or-less tell the ones who took 'Latijn-Wiskunde' as they're the high-achievers who work harder on what they do and set themselves higher standards (and this applies to all subjects, sciences as well as languages).

- The 'lack of usefulness' argument can be turned on its head. Latin is a strong means of character-building and the latin teachers I know are experts in introducing intelligent adolescents to the absurdity of everyday existence (most intelligent kids between the ages of 12-16 are part-time existentialists). By motivating people to study a dead language only spoken by the Pope (and, occasionally, ketchup <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif"> ), pupils gain an everyday survival skill: the discipline to apply themselves to a task outside their immediate frame of reference. If anything, in my experience as a linguist, the more obscure a language people study, the more self-disciplined and rigorous their minds (the consonant-counting interpreters of ogham being geniuses).

There are also other arguments of latin being a relevant backbone to pan-European identity, romance language culture and writing, an increased sensitivity to textual mechanics, etc. Pretty arty-farty reasons, all.

My third grade daughter started Latin classes this year in shcool. The school follows a Classics curriculum. I think it will be very helpful to her as she learns other languages. If her mother didn't find it so difficult to actually speak to her in, and teach her, Spanish, it would be a total no-brainer for her. As it is, she finds it quite easy. I think it's a plus.

I think it's a plus too, for all the reasons already stated above. I wish I'd had the opportunity to learn it, but Australian schools don't do that sort of thing, sadly.

IMHO, any kind of learning is never a waste - you never know, your son might end up using his Latin for purposes that no one could have predicted!

Vijfal, have you ever been to the Vatican's website? The Pope writes all his letters to other church officials in Latin! Most impressive.

Arni (who did four years of Latin in school) also recommends it. He says that being able to read texts in the original Latin is something "very special". <img src="../images/emoticons/ybigrin.gif">

It´s good to read so many positive statements and deep down I agree.

I don´t know what it is like in the US but in Germany the medium or big Latinum is a must for any subject at the Phil. Fac. Whereas in law, medicine and the like students only do a course in order to learn how to form the correct plural and genetive endings. But they don´t have to translate any original texts.

Thanks for your comments.

quote: "(and, occasionally, ketchup <img src="../images/emoticons/ysmile.gif"> )" I should have known: Belgophile is a Greek word!

I did Latin 4hrs/week for 6 years here in a Brussels Lyceum, and we ended up translating completely obscene and decadent texts such as "Trimalchio's feast": a field day for any 17 year old! I forgot most of it because of lack of practice.

I think in a united European context, it is a language with a future. It shares a common European background, yet it's nobody's mother tongue. So before Latin, everybody's equal!

Living Latin courses are on the way up everywhere in Europe and I start receiving the first e-mails in Latin, even professional. It could well become an elite language for the "eminently clubbable" some time soon.

Mel Gibson is now making a movie in Latin and Aramic.
Full article: Living Latin: Roman rebound
<a href="http://economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=2281926" Target="_BLANK">http://economist.com/printedition/displayS...=2281926</a>

Delectat.

Yeah, but he's a religion-freak, and I've heard the film is blatantly anti-Semitic.

It's certainly generating alot of controversy here. The minister at a church we visited this weekend had just returned from a private screening of the film (excellent marketing strategy) where Mel Gibson talked about his role in making the film. He worked on it for 12 years, and said it was something he couldn't NOT do, even if it cost him his career. Apparently there was a instance where in despair he almost jumped off the roof of a hotel, and at that moment had a religious/spiritual conversion. We saw a short trailer for the movie and it seems pretty intense. I'm debating whether I'll see it or not. I am curious about what in the film makes it anti-Semitic.

In addition to the Mel Gibson film, there's lots of talk about Donna Tartt's The Secret History being adapted for film, which will no doubt stimulate interest in studying Latin.

-- an excursion by Mel Gibson into anti-semitism will make a change from all of his anti-English films.

They exist? I would like to see an anti-English film. Are they as funny as those die-hard highlights of Brit humour on Germany?

Anglii Saxonique saeve rident, quod non Teutoni
(phew!)

about others yes, but have you ever met a Brit who is able to laugh about himself? Nein, Nein, Nein. (An this is not the number for an emergency call.)

- although one's heart agree's with some of the reasons given above for learning latin, my head tells me dont waste your kids time, yes it would provide a good grounding for learning other Latin languages but how many are they going to learn anyhow ? if the answer is one or 2 then they would be better to invest their time/efforts in learning those 1 or 2 practical languages well
- Belgo, you sound like my Bro, he's also into that linguistic stuff and has tendancies to quote obscure Latin poems under the affluence of incohol
- lets face it, everyone else laughs at the Brits so they dont need to....

could have a point there (grin)

Well well well..... I am Italian and had to study latin for hours every week for five years of my life! At the time I absoloutely hated it....hours of my time spent translating incomprehensible nonsense! Then I went to University and abandoned it. However, only now at 27 I realise how useful Latin has been.
It has given me a precious base for learning other languages (even if with Italian being my native language, most things are easy!), but most of all has given me an opening of mind I would have never had without it. I agree with belgofile that it is a way of strengthening one's character and opening the pan-european world.

So, the time children will spend studying Latin won't be wasted at all, irrespective of whether they'll become doctors or pop singers!

I have only one regret: I wish I paid more attention during my Latin classes and appreciated it a bit more then.

It's a dead language, only useful if you're planning to snuff it soon!

But Brits are a constant source of unbridled mirth. There's nothing we enjoy more than a collective giggle at our ineptitude.

Just look at our most humorous cultural ambassador, Thom Yorke.

- 'Read Suetonius, snuff opiates' could be a good life motto, marcie.

Just found this for anybody wanting to show off his knowledge:


gratulamur tibi gratulamur tibi gratulamur cara (f)/care (m) (here name) gratulamur tibi

Caesar adsum jam forte, Pompei adorat.

Caesar sic in omnibus, Pompei sic intram.

I find not knowing latin limits my enjoyment of things like Lucretius.

I bought wheelocks latin, but you must have a class. Got to about page 28.

Things like Giordano Bruno written in latin can be hard to find translations for and there is so much history in scientific thought prior to english and french.

I'd love to acquire latin but it seems so distant. I've tried just reading it in old shakespeare translations and various other sources but I really could'nt get much out of it without training.

I feel a little bummed it was not even offered in high school. Later in life you realize how much you miss without the right basis in education.

Other than reading some great original thought, it may lack real utility, but I don't have enough information to make a judgement.

bonae 841

Quid licet Iovi non licet bovi...

Lots of maths and lots of Latin... the only way to hone a young mind.

Unfortunately for me, I was born in the U.S., where Latin was not a requirement. In fact, in my high school, we were only required to have 2 years of a foreign language and the choice was between Latin, French or Spanish. That was it.

Quote:

Unfortunately for me, I was born in the U.S., where Latin was not a requirement. In fact, in my high school, we were only required to have 2 years of a foreign language and the choice was between Latin, French or Spanish. That was it.

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Nemo censitur ignorare linguam Latinam.... I had too much of the stuff.

The rerum natura was Way Way Way ahead of its time.

As for Latin and Math comment. As an American going Belge at 38, I am going to get into that school in Namur and see what I have been missing!

Math, French and Physics. As an American I have a long way to go but I am very excited about the trip back into learning.

Turns out, finance est peu important.

It would depend on their aptitude... I see no point in forcing an chicken to try and fly like an eagle...

When I was 11, we started out with 90 kids reading Latin... when I was 15 4 pupils were left reading Latin-Math (8 hours' math course). There were kids with stomache ulcer like syndroms, undefined ailments and suicide attempts... Societas Jesu, Plus est en vous

ubi vanitas et horror deus ibi est

Hi people. I do not live in Belgium nor any EU Country. However my opinion may introduce some further debate.

I am a passionate for languages. I do speak english, some french, german, italian, portuguese, dutch, bulgarian and a bit of Latin. As you can see I would not disagree with the PRO's for learning Latin. However, I think latin takes too much of anyone, whether kids or grown ups. I would recommend Spanish (from Castilla). Spanish is one of the many descending languages of Latin, but it is the one with most preserved characteristics of such a language. If you speak spanish you will find no trouble in learning latin or any other romantic (from latin) language. If you know spanish you can read and understand almost 60-90% of portuguese, italian and to some extent (for those with the knap) french, and watch out! this doesnt work the other way around in most cases!. Another pro point for spanish! there are about more than 300 milion people speaking it.

Well people, the decision is up to you, I understand that Latin is an option in school and that, may be, spanish is not. Then the die is cast.

With best regards to all of you in belgium and EU.

Francisco