Just passing on some info I received:

Today, 21st October, the swine flu vaccine will be rolled out in mass across the UK
Here is the declared ingredient list for the UK version of the vaccine, Pandermix

THE INGREDIENTS (PANDEMRIX VACCINE)

THE RECIPE
Adjuvent: Squalene 10.68mg (Linked to Guillane Barre (Gulf War) syndrome and illegal in the UK)
Alpha-Tocopherol 11.86mg
Polysorbate 80 (Tween)4.86mg

OTHER INGREDIENTS
Octoxinol 10 (this is a contraceptive)
Sodium Chloride
Disodium Phospate
Potassium dihydrogen Phospate
Potassium Chloride
Magnesium Chloride
Thiomersol (MERCURY) (strongly linked to autistim spectrum neurological disorders, and removed from all other vaccines in the UK since 2003)
Water for Injections

SAFETY CONCERNS
Neurodegenerative and Autoimmune Illness

There is much resistance in the scientific community to its use at this stage, not least as it has been rushed into production amidst accusations of carelessness if not downright negligence. Baxter International, one of the companies supplying the UK, are themselves currently the subject criminal charges after having distributed 72 kgs of swine flu vaccine tainted with Live H5N1 or Avian Flu.
Currently, more than 60% of UK medical professionals have said they will not be taking it.
In Germany, chancellor Merkl last week announced that although the ordinary population will get a version similar to ours, the cabinet and other high ranking officials will get a very different one.
The goverment has granted companies supplying the vaccines, immunity from prosecution for any adverse reactions.
And people in those companies have said that they will not be taking the vaccine.

The swine flu vaccine programme represents a gigantic financial opportunity for these companies.
In these times of financial hardship, is it perhaps an opportunity that could outweigh issues of safety and efficacy?

Before agreeing to an untested and potentially dangerous substance being put into your body, or those of your children, do some research.


Ten Things You're Not Supposed to Know about the Swine Flu Vaccine
http://www.naturalnews.com/026717_swine_fl...lu_vaccine.html

Noting that one has to register to read that article on the linked site, and thus presuming you are, can you tell us if they cite sources to substantiate the dozen or so claims made in the text?

For example:







Oh, sod it - might as well put the entire text in quotes as I expect the site hasn't backed up a single claim with authoritative citations. Or have they..?

What do you think Mr Fook - don't you think that this type of reportage would be better served with solid facts to substantiate the accusations? Just flinging accusations doesn't make them true, although like all things flung, some invariably sticks.

You see, as soon as you read this sentence, you just know the whole story is complete bollocks. has anyone done a survey of NHS workers to find out if they will take the jab? No, of course not, It's based on anectdotal evidence at best.

Here's a very good article about the 'anti-vaccer' conspiracy nutcases, who peddle this sh!te.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience/

And today I also got this via Expatica.
Make of it what you will.Who said I expected anyone to beleive it?
I don't know if its right or wrong.
And anyway Cow,you'll never admit you're wrong about anything even when know damn well you're wrong.
Typical arrogant smartarse attitude that you're even proud of.

Resistance to swine flu shots increases
About two thirds of nursing staff refused to be vaccinated against swine flu.
Related ArticlesSwine flu: Belgians protest against the new vaccination
EU approves new swine flu vaccines
Dutch chief virologist denies conflict of interest
Majority healthcare staff say 'no' to swine flu vaccineThe Netherlands – The reluctance among nursing staff to be vaccinated against the swine flu virus is increasing just weeks before the Dutch vaccination campaign kicks off.

Two thirds of nursing staff do not want to be vaccinated against the A(H1N1) virus because they fear the side effects.

Ute, who works in a home for people with a handicap, said she would not consider having the vaccine.

“For a start it is very difficult to really protect yourself against flu. Every flu jab targets a certain virus. And there are hundreds going around, so you are not protected at all. The side effects can be really serious. And it seems like there is a lot of panic-spreading going on. It is only the pharmaceutical industry that stands to benefit from it," said Ute.

The reluctance of nursing staff to be vaccinated against the A(H1N1) virus is not just limited to the Netherlands. The same phenomenon is taking place in Spain, France and Belgium.

Virologist and influenza advisor for the Belgian government, Marc van Ranst said it is impossible to persuade all nursing staff to be vaccinated.

The reluctance of the nursing staff is mainly based on ignorance, said independent nurse Tineke van der Kruk.

"I think they do not know enough about the background of the vaccination. They think it's in the interest of their institutions that they won't have too many sick employees to pay for. And I think they underestimate the disease itself and all the consequences it has."

Solution to resistance
To counter the resistance, the University Medical Centre St. Radboud in Nijmegen is in the midst of launching an information campaign for their medical staff to highlight the importance of getting vaccinated.

There, nursing staff who want to be vaccinated is 51 percent compared to a national average of around 25 percent.

For the past few years, the Nijmegen hopsital has also been carrying out information campagins in recent years to inform medical staff the importance of being vaccinated against flu virus.

Nannet van der Geest, company doctor at the hospital is not keen on compulsory vaccination campaigns like the one in the United States. Instead she believes in providing the medical staff wit the right information so they can make their own choices.

"I think it's important to give the right information and to motivate the healthcare workers. Have a little patience because when I look back, in the last few years you can see the percentage is increasing. So give it a try. I don't like to force those things."

At the end of October, the leaders of a number of medical organisations will be vaccinated during a meeting open to the public. In November, nursing staff will receive their vaccination.

It doesn't really matter if people do or don't take it - it's down to personal choice. Don't want it? Nobody will care if you say no. Want it? Fine too: if it gives you peace of mind, have the shot.

Swine flu is not a global killer - like other strains of flu, it kills some (usually the old and weak), but not all. The media have flogged this to death until lo and behold, most people don't give a $h*t anymore (although the militant hypochondriacs will still be losing sleep)

Vaccine may or may not contain x, y, z - but hey - cigarettes contain cyanide and arsenic but they don't instantly kill you after one puff of smoke either


I have flu now - and I don't know (nor will I investigate) which strain it is. As they say 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger' If I stop posting suddenly, send flowers to......

I agree. I too have flu at the moment, a particularly bad one, but hopefully I've got over the worst of it. May be it's too late for me, may be I'm already going through this swine flu, many people have got through it without even knowing what strain they had. I'm not in a hurry to go to the doctor, but I will do if it plays on my lungs for too long and even then, I'll only be wanting antibiotics.

Some info:
http://www.theflucase.com/

I caught some type of flu in Portugal in August and was confined to a 10 foot perimeter around the porcelin throne for around 5 days. I've never suffered that long before from the flu, so who knows what type of strain it was.

To Osita (if you're still alive): I have no problem with governments offering vaccines, but this talk of mandatory vaccination doesn't sit well with me. You say it's voluntary, but there IS a desire somewhere in government to make it mandatory. To be honest, I don't understand how governments are able to put such an organized preventive front worldwide against this flu, yet seem so impotent in other matters of greater importance. And the large amount of credible data out there that shows vaccines are not effective is another head scratcher.

Look what Mass. is trying to do, from Fox news no less
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXSB2oca7f8

Ooh Fred baby - you can be so masterful with words !
Thank You!

Perhaps you should point that out to those who have lost loved ones to flu.

The point is not that the swine flu is some killer disease that we have to be scared of because of its mortality rate, the point is that it is spreading very quickly to a wide number of people - so while the death rate may not be higher than the normal flu, we will see more mortalities this year simply because of the proportion of it. However if enough people are vaccinated it will reduce the spread and therefore it WILL save lives. Unless you find it unimportant to protect those with the underlying problems that can lead to death as a consequence of the flu? Should someones asthmatic child become ill and die just because someone else wants to show how clever they are not to be taken in by the 'media' or hypochondriacs?

At this stage those with the underlying health issues are being offered the vaccination. Of course everyone knows that this doesnt give you 100% protection against getting the flu, but it should help to reduce the seriousness of it at the very least. That shouldnt be the excuse not to have the immunisation (see someones previous quote about the flu jab being pointless because of the number of flu strains etc) However, if you end up in hospital for some other reason, would you want to (in your vulnerable state) be treated by a nurse who turned down the vaccine and is now carrying and spreading the swine flu to you? How crazy is that? You are suddenly one of the 'vulnerable' (or it could be your son or daughter) and yet three quarters of the hospital staff are sharing their flu bugs because they refused the vaccination because of ignorance. (as previously quoted).

One of the reasons for not taking it is the belief that it would be getting sucked into panic spreading - so why are we all getting our kids immunised against measles and mumps? We never used to, they are not highly fatal diseases, and many of us as kids went through them. But look at the results of the immunsation programmes, in many countries those diseases are now almost wiped out. It has nothing to do with 'panic', just common sense.
Lots of people are now saying its all media hype - but again, tell that to those who lost loved ones or have family in the 'at risk' category. Everyone KNOWS the flu isnt generally life threatening, but if you fell into that category wouldnt you be reasonably concerned when you know how fast it is spreading (THAT alone makes it very different from the normal flu) Is that being hypochondriacs? No.

Why is there such a big thing at the moment with people wanting to 'prove' that the flu is harmless and that the vaccination programme is hype? That doesnt make you cleverer than someone who wants the vaccination, it probably means you are lucky enough not to be in the at risk category or have loved ones who are. It doesnt make those who want it into 'hypochondriacs'. Yes it should be voluntary, but it should also be well informed and not a decision made based on old wives tales or unsupported claims made on the internet.

I wonder how many people have died of hunger and war in the last hour.

Here's a video worth watching for a more serious persepctive into flu pandemics, particularly the Spanish flu, which killed something like 50,000,000 people in 1918.



TED Science Lecture 2007

Well Wes, I sincerely hope it's not too late for you! We would miss your posts...

Why thank you emilio...

Same here Wes!
Emilio - you are so considerate! :o)

Thank you...
All this coughing and spewing up has left me sounding a bit hoarse now.

Its stupid to ask those who say vaccines are not safe to back it with scientific data. What about scientific data to back claims that vaccines work????

If you just read the reports (in medical journals and books) and stories on how vaccines were discovered, tested, accepted you would see that there is something wrong with the whole theory of vaccine effectiveness. Yes, it's a theory. It is backed by majority of average conformists scientists but not by the really smart minority.

Let me just tell you two methods how to make vaccines appear to work.
1. Change the guidelines for reporting a disease. Suddenly there is no disease.
2. Ride on the coattail of changes in the quality of life that is actually eradicating the disease.


Think about that.

Well said.
We the people have been given every good reason to question what is going on.

Resistance to swine flu shots increases

About two thirds of nursing staff refused to be vaccinated against swine flu.

The Netherlands – The reluctance among nursing staff to be vaccinated against the swine flu virus is increasing just weeks before the Dutch vaccination campaign kicks off.

Two thirds of nursing staff do not want to be vaccinated against the A(H1N1) virus because they fear the side effects.

Ute, who works in a home for people with a handicap, said she would not consider having the vaccine.

“For a start it is very difficult to really protect yourself against flu. Every flu jab targets a certain virus. And there are hundreds going around, so you are not protected at all. The side effects can be really serious. And it seems like there is a lot of panic-spreading going on. It is only the pharmaceutical industry that stands to benefit from it," said Ute.
http://www.expatica.com/news/dutch-news/Re...tm_medium=email

Yes, I've thought about that and have come to the conclusion that you need to substantiate your statements - otherwise what you say is completely without... er... substance.

Cite sources, please...

Hang in there Wes.

My god are you so ignorant? It took me about 45 seconds to find proof that vaccinations are not effective, using the American Medical Association´s own data. Every mother I've ever known who did their own research on vaccinations does not vaccinate their child, including my own. Use your critical thinking, and don't rely on what the superficial status quo spoon-feeds you, please.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

"The reality, as documented by the American Medical Association's own journal (JAMA) in the January 1999 issue, is that there is no connection between death from infectious diseases and vaccinations; that's right, "none".

First, let's look at the dates for when vaccinations were first introduced in the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control:

* Measles (one of the Ms of the MMR vaccination): 1963

* Mumps (the other M of the MMR vaccination): 1967

* Chickenpox: 1995

* Diphtheria (the D of the DPT vaccination): First licensed in 1921, but not widely used until the 1930's

* Pertussis (whooping cough, the P of the DPT vaccination): First developed in the 1930's, widely used by the mid-1940's

* Tetanus (the T of the DPT vaccination): First used as a childhood vaccine in the 1940's.

* Rubella (German measles, the R of the MMR vaccination): 1969

There are several others, of course, but they are either too recent to take into account or not truly associated with childhood illnesses, such as smallpox and polio, which are more appropriately considered epidemic diseases.

The JAMA Study

The number of deaths from nine different infectious diseases, in some cases, groups of diseases, were tallied. They are:

* Pneumonia and influenza

* Tuberculosis

* Diphtheria

* Pertussis

* Measles

* Typhoid fever

* Dysentery

* Syphilis

* AIDS

All but AIDS were chosen because they were the most common cause of death by infectious diseases in the first half of the 20th century, with the exception of polio, for which data are not available for all years covered by the study.

Graphs showing numbers of deaths by age, by infectious disease deaths as a whole, by specific infectious diseases, and by all disease causes are shown plotted by time, from 1900 through 1996.

Results of the JAMA Study

With the exception of 1918, when the influenza epidemic struck, the rate of deaths from infectious diseases show a fairly smooth rate of decrease from 1900 through 1980, at which point a slight rate of increase develops. This link shows the associated JAMA graph: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/...1/FIGJOC80862F1

Deaths graphed by groups of diseases show some variations, but interestingly, the most significant improvements are in typhus and dysentery http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/...1/FIGJOC80862F4 . Both of these diseases show almost no deaths after 1960. Interestingly, there is no vaccination for dysentery and most people are not vaccinated for typhus.

Tuberculosis rates show a curve similar to the overall infectious disease rate. The death rate from pneumonia and influenza from 1970 through 1996 shows a general increase, in spite of the ongoing vaccinations for influenza and the introduction of pneumonia vaccines in 1977 and 1983.

Diphtheria shows its greatest decrease of deaths prior to 1920. There was a spike in diphtheria deaths during the early 1920's, shortly after the vaccination was introduced, and then the rate of decrease continued as before the vaccination's introduction. Whooping cough (pertussis) and measles showed the same general trend of decrease during the 20th century.

Finally, take a look at the chart for death rates from all disease causes http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/...1/FIGJOC80862F2 . From 1900 through the 1920's, the infectious disease rate goes down at an impressive pace. This is a time during which there were no vaccinations against childhood diseases. The rate of decrease of deaths from 1940 through 1960 continues at about the same pace. Then, it starts to level out, in spite of the fact that the vast majority of children are vaccinated during this time.

Now, take a look at the same graph showing the death rates from all causes. This should make you nervous. The rate of death from all disease decreases slightly from 1900 through 1920. However, after this, when vaccinations start to be introduced, the death rate from noninfectious causes starts to increase. It isn't a huge amount, but it's definitely there. Most significantly, the increase in death rate from noninfectious causes starts when vaccinations are introduced.

What Can Explain the Reduction in Infectious Disease Rates?

Since it's obvious from the AMA's own documentation that vaccinations have little or no effect on the outcome of infectious disease deaths, then there must be other issues at play. If one looks at the history of the 20th century in the U.S. then it isn't too difficult to see what has changed. This was the era of improved overall hygiene and adequate food.

It was when clean and abundant water became the norm. It was when systems to clean wastes from public water supplies became standard. It was when septic and sewer systems to separate people from disease-producing wastes were introduced. It was a time of relative plenty, when people grew larger because of adequate food. In other words, it was a time of relative wealth and public works for good water and sewage treatment.

This is the most likely reason behind the decrease in infectious diseases, not the medical system's vaunted vaccinations."
http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:fWkD5F...lient=firefox-a

Anyone making claims on any given subject should be able to support their statements with fact. It's the distinction between intelligent discussion and the ramblings of the uninformed.

Providing substance to claims such as 'vaccinations don't work' (my words) is essential if we are to understand on what basis the claim is made. Asking for clarification, data, facts, or anything to support an argument does not make the person doing the asking ignorant. It's just a sensible thing to do.

Everyone here knows that statistics can be used to say whatever you want them to - "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" as the famous quote goes. For the argument 'against', there is always the argument 'for'.

Here, for example, is a data set courtesy of the US Dept of Health & Human Services. It comes, more specifically, from the CDC National Vaccine Program Office, and it shows the effectiveness of vaccinations since their introduction into the United States...

http://www.hhs.gov/nvpo/concepts/intro6.htm



Do, everyone, have a look at the charts and let us all here know your thoughts based on that data, or alternative factual sources. It would made for an interesting discussion - especially if we can stick to facts and have an informed debate and not sink to slinging comments at a personal level.

Hope every one is enjoying their Saturday.

Syzygy

I want to add a few observations concerning the JAMA study quoted above.

1) It is important to note that the Study does not include a certain number of vaccinations which have been or are still hugely successfull:
smallpox ( the disease is even eradicated !),
Hepatitis A,B,C
Dengue
Polio (!!!) a reputed killer!
Rabies
etc.

2) The Study associates Pneumonia and Influenza. However, there is no vaccination against Pneumonia! Pneumonia CAN be the consequence of an influenza but not necessarily.

3) To mention just these diseases: there are of course no vaccinations against AIDS, Dysentery or Syphilis. So finally, what does this Study demonstrate?

4) There is absolutely no doubt at all, that the lives of countless "high risk" patients (Old Age, Diabetes, Cardiac Disease, etc) have been saved through simple "influenza vaccinations" in fall.

Like all medical interventions, vaccination is a tool that can be useful if it is properly used.

Um, just to be clear, to date, there is no vaccine against hepatitis C, though there are some under development...
Also, is it not the case, that vaccines are made and given to people to prevent them getting that virus1st/disease2nd so, if you already have that virus or disease, then it's too late, it wont cure you?

Point taken Syzygy. Unfortunate choice of words I used there - ignorant.

From the BBC

US declares swine flu 'emergency'



A sensible response to a considerable potential threat?

Syzygy, Emilio, do you know of any mothers who've done their own research on vaccines and continue to have their children vaccinated?

According to JAMA's data, there is no link between flu vaccines and deaths from flu. In other words, they haven't been proven effective.

I don't think I know any mothers - apart from my own that is.

Hopefully you can clarify - how does the choice of those who have done their own investigations determine whether vaccines are safe/useful or not. That's only about choice.

If the mothers were bioscientists I might be swayed.



Sorry, I must be hard of thinking this morning. Effective at what - killing people?

There is no hard scientific data that show vaccines are effective in saving lives. If you can find it, please post. I've already posted data from JAMA's own website that support my position.

You don't have any data to support that assertion.

There is no data that show a decrease in flu deaths since the advent of flu vaccines.

<note to self, data is plural!>

I have researched it, and I have continued to have my children vaccinated.

I've been vaccinated against many things over the years, hepatitis A & B and have had all the normal vaccines that one has as a child and through the years growing up (BCG) and as an adult too like typhoid & polio for travelling to Thailand etc.. None of them have caused me any major or obvious problems at all...

For anyone who cares
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1K74Tnrrok

I agree...

Perhaps.
Problem is - we've all been told so many lies by these people,nobody quite knows who to trust anymore....I don't anyhoos.

Anyone actually read the JAMA report? It's worth it. For a start you'll notice that word 'vaccine' appears just the once in the original text and in the following context:



Indeed, the paper opens with the following...



The authors conclude with this statement:



Interesting. The authors are reinforcing the need for preparedness when dealing with the spread of infectious diseases; diseases like Avian and Swine flu.

Nothing then, to support the claim that vaccinations are failing or a re useless, ineffective, etc, etc. Seems that the editors at Natural News (or whatever the site is called) have been spinning a decent bit of research for their own biased aims.

Back to journalism school with them.

Where is your data that show vaccines save lives?

Where is your data that show vaccines are effective in preventing contraction of disease?

I posted that article with data from JAMA to show you that vaccines have not been proven effective.

Of course there is a need for preparedness. Good hygiene, organic foods, clean water, good rest. Those are the things that strengthen us against illness. NOT vaccines.

Syzygy I understand you're not too impressed by what mothers think on the subject. Here's what prominent scientists and doctors in the field think about it. Please now find prominent scientists and doctors who champion vaccines and post here. Thank you.

"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children does more harm than good."
Dr J Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine Control Officer, US Food
and Drug Administration

"The greatest threat of childhood disease lies in the dangerous and
ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunisation."
Dr R. Mendelsohn, Author and Professor of Paediatrics (How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor)

"In our opinion, there is now sufficient evidence of immune malfunction following current vaccination programmes to anticipate growing public demands for research investigation into alternative methods of prevention of infectious disease."
Dr's H. Buttram and J. Hoffman (Vaccinations and Immune Malfunctions)

"All vaccination has the effect of directing the three values of the blood
into or toward the zone characteristics of cancer and leukemia...Vaccines DO predispose to cancer and leukaemia."
Professor L.C. Vincent, Founder of Bioelectronics

"Every vaccine carries certain hazards and can produce inward reactions in some people...in general, there are more vaccine complications than is generally appreciated."
Professor George Dick, London University

"Official data have shown that the large-scale vaccinations undertaken in the US have failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection."
Dr A. Sabin, developer of the Oral Polio vaccine (lecture to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy, Decemebr 7th 1985)

"In addition to the many obvious cases of mortality from these practises,
there are also long-term hazards which are almost impossible to estimate
accurately...the inherent danger of of all vaccine procedures should be a
deterrent to their unnecessary or unjustifiable use."
Sir Graham Wilson (The Hazards of Immunisation)

"Laying aside the very real possibility that the various vaccines are
contaminated with animal viruses and may cause serious illness later in life (multiple sclerosis, cancer, leukaemia, etc) we must consider whether the vaccines really work for their intended purpose."
Dr W.C. Douglas (Cutting Edge, May 1990)

"The only wholly safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used"
Dr James A. Shannon, National Institute of Health, USA

With reference to Smallpox;

"Vaccination is a monstrosity, a misbegotten offspring of error and
ignorance, it should have no place in either hygiene or medicine...Believe not in vaccination, it is a world-wide delusion, an unscientific practise, a fatal superstition with consequences measured today by tears and sorrow without end."
Professor Chas Rauta, University of Perguia, Italy , (New York Medical Journal July 1899)

"Vaccination does not protect, it actually renders its subjects more
susceptible by depressing vital power and diminishing natural resistance, and millions of people have died of smallpox which they contracted after being vaccinated."
Dr J.W. Hodge (The Vaccination Superstition)

"It is nonsense to think that you can inject pus - and it is usually from the pustule end of the dead smallpox victim … it is unthinkable that you can inject that into a little child and in any way improve its health. What is true of vaccination is exactly as true of all forms of serum immunisation, if we could by any means build up a natural resistance to disease through these artificial means, I would applaud it to the echo, but we can't do it."
Dr William Howard Hay (lecture to Medical Freedom Society, June 25th 1937)

"Immunisation against smallpox is more hazardous than the disease itself."
Professor Ari Zuckerman, World Health Organisation

With reference to Whooping Cough;

"There is no doubt in my mind that in the UK alone some hundreds, if not thousands of well infants have suffered irreparable brain damage needlessly and that their lives and those of their parents have been wrecked in consequence."
Professor Gordon Stewart, University of Glasgow (Here's Health, March 1980)

"My suspicion, which is shared by others in my profession, is that the
nearly 10,000 SIDS deaths that occur in the US each year are related to one or more of the vaccines that are routinely given to children. The pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine is the most likely villain , but it could also be one or more of the others."
Dr R Mendelsohn, Author and Professor of Paediatrics (How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor)

"The worst vaccine of all is the whooping cough vaccine...it is responsible for a lot of deaths and for a lot of infants suffering irreversible brain damage.."
Dr Archie Kalokerinos, Author and Vaccine Researcher (Natural Health Convention, Stanwell Tops, NSW, Australia 1987)

With reference to Polio;

"Many here voice a silent view that the Salk and Sabin polio vaccine, being made of monkey kidney tissue has been directly responsible for the major increase in leukaemia in this country."
Dr F. Klenner, Polio Researcher, USA

"No batch of vaccine can be proved to be safe before it is given to
children"
Surgeon General Leonard Scheele (AMA Convention 1955, USA)

"Live virus vaccines against influenza and paralytic polio, for example, may in each instance cause the disease it is intended to prevent..."
Dr Jonas Salk, developer of first polio vaccine (Science 4/4/77 Abstracts)
http://vaccinationdebate.com/web3.html

I was particularly impressed by these two quotes, pulled from the quagmire of history:



I'm pretty certain there have been a few advances in medicine that might take our ancient, uninformed (by today's standards) and long-dead nay-sayers from two centuries ago by surprise. Even our chap from before the 2nd World War might be pleasantly surprised by what science has achieved in the 70-odd years since he allegedly made that statement.

So, what we have so far are a bunch of opinions that stretch back to a time before modern medicine, and for which no context is provided; an article from a crank website that deliberately and unethically twists a fine piece of research on mortality rates for its own biased ends, and the JAMA research itself, which mentions the word 'vaccine' but once, and the context in which this all important word is used is in stating quite categorically the clear benefits of them!

Oh, and of course there is the link to the US Dept of Health and Human Services that I posted earlier and which provides a number of very important graphs showing how mortality rates have reduced since the introduction of various vaccines...

Interesting, that even today the search for cures via vaccines continues. For example, here's a link to the Cancer Vaccine Institute, who state that:



Perhaps the nay-sayers would have the medical profession stop its research into something they believe can only be a waste of time and money? Surely, they would say, the research is flawed - vaccines don't work - and anyway, a vaccine for cancer sufferers may end up causing more harm than good.

Without a doubt, those proclaiming the worthlessness of all vaccinations today would undoubtedly refuse a cancer vaccine, even in the face of their own death. Surely that is what they would say?

No, I don't think the 'anti-vaccine brigade' would be saying such things either. Funny that, isn't it?

The best thing about vaccinations is that they weed out the irredeemably stupid, and terminally paranoid.

So if these anti-vaccination nutcases don't take vaccinations due to a combination of idiocy and paranoid delusions, then they will eventually die off earlier than the rest of us. Thus the average I.Q. of the human race will be raised by a fraction of a percentage point, and I won't have to read any more hysterical bollocks like this thread.

It's a win-win!

^^^^^^^^^



Thanks for giving us a laugh - well, I laughed!

Yeah sure.

I guess it's either laugh or cry! Hey Syzyby still waiting for that data that supports your position, or quotes from prominent scientists, doctors that support vaccination.

Here´s more!

"Homeopathy is wholly capable of satisfying the therapeutic demands of this age better than any other system or school of medicine."-----Dr. Charles Menninger M.D., Founder Menninger Clinic

Nobody needs to be confused but EVERYBODY better be darn well frightened about taking ANY vaccine, under ANY circumstance, for ANY reason, at ANY time in their life."--Dr Duffy DC

"I have been on the staff of the New Jersey State Department of Health, and was in complete charge of the Monmouth County Cerebral Palsy Treatment Center. For the past three years I have been director of the Homestead Rehabilitation Institute (and still am as of this writing). My experiences have enabled me to observe from within the workings of official medicine. At first I could not believe what I saw...Were the truth concerning medical treatment and so-called prevention ever to leak out, the stench of it would obliterate the public confidence in the medical profession and put an end to the fantastic drug profits."---Dr. Milton Fried, D.C., 1956 (Poisoned Needle by McBean p192)

"What, then, is the value of vaccination? We firmly believe that it has no value at all. Its supposed value has been deduced from incorrect reasoning on the part of its advocates. Were small-pox as prevalent and as fatal now as in the eighteenth century, it might even be justifiable to have recourse to inoculation—either by variolous or vaccine matter. History, however, has demonstrated that towards the close of the last century, when Jenner introduced his system, small-pox had gradually died out, as we shall presently show. Even in Jenner's day small-pox had lost its virulence."---Dr. Charles T. Pearce, M.D. [1868 Book: Essay on Vaccination]

"It is difficult to conceive what will be the excuse made for a century of cowpoxing; but it cannot be doubted that the practice will appear in as absurd a light to the common sense of the twentieth century as blood-letting now does to us. Vaccination differs, however, from all previous errors of the faculty, in being maintained as the law of the land on the warrant of medical authority. That is the reason why the blow to professional credit can hardly help being severe, and why the efforts to ward it off have been, and will continue to be so ingenious." [1889] Jenner and Vaccination A Strange Chapter of Medical History by Charles Creighton M.D.

"If you want the truth on vaccination you must go to those who are not making anything out of it. If doctors shot at the moon every time it was full as a preventive of measles and got a shilling for it, they would bring statistics to prove it was a most efficient practice, and that the population would be decimated if it were stopped."---Dr Allinson

"The anthrax vaccine was approved without every doing a controlled clinical study. There is no long term safety data on the anthrax vaccine. The government admitted this in congressional hearings. It is a distortion of the truth to say there is substantial safety data."--Bart Classen

"The vaccinations are not working, and they are dangerous.. We should be working with nature."--Lendon Smith MD

"I once believed in Jenner; I once believed in Pasteur. I believed in vaccination. I believed in vivisection. But I changed my views as the result of hard thinking."--Dr Hadwen

"I have no faith in vaccination; nay, I look upon it with the greatest possible disgust, and firmly believe that it is often the medium of conveying many filthy and loathsome diseases from one child to another, and no protection whatever against small pox. Indeed, I consider we are now living in the JENNERIAN epoch for the slaughter of innocents, and the unthinking portion of the adult population."---W. J. COLLINS, M.D., B.S., B.Sc. (Lond.) M.R.C.S (Letter to Vaccination Inquirer)

The evidence (vaccines cause autism) is now overwhelming, despite the misinformation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Institute of Medicine. The (Pretending to) Combat Autism Act By Bernard Rimland

I am no longer "trying to dig up evidence to prove" vaccines cause autism. There is already abundant evidence,...... This debate is not scientific but is political. --- [July 9, 2006 Blog/letter] Discovering the causes, treatment of autism ----David Ayoub, MD

"Not one case receiving homeopathic care died, while the "old school" doctors lost twenty percent of their (smallpox) cases.....I gave about three hundred internal vaccinations, five to adults acting as practical nurses; to the man who installed the telephone and lights in the pest-house; to mothers who slept with their children while they had smallpox in its severest form. All of these people, exposed daily, were immune."--W. L. Bonnell, MD

During the last ten years, I have treated and cured all kinds of serious acute diseases without resorting to allopathic drugs. In a very extensive practice, I have not in all these years lost a single case of appendicitis (and not one of them was operated upon), of typhoid fever, diphtheria, smallpox, scarlet fever, etc., and only one case of cerebro-spinal meningitis and of lobar pneumonia. These facts may be verified from the records of the Health Department of the City of Chicago.-----Chapter 16: The Diphtheria Antitoxin (Nature Cure: Philosophy & Practice Based on the Unity of Disease & Cure by Henry Lindlahr, M.D.)

"Based on what I now know, I would not give my children the combined MMR vaccine. I would consider either using the vaccines singly (not available in this country but possible in mainland Europe) or not vaccinating at all. It may be safer for healthy children to catch these illnesses rather than run the risk of immunisation."--Dr Richard Halvorsen

My thirty years experience as a family doctor in the healing arts have convinced me that the greatest threat to life and health in the 21st century, is no longer atomic bombs and nuclear power. The greatest threat to our health today is (by far)the medical community, and one of their most dangerous tools is vaccination - particularly the horrific procedure of injecting foreign protein into newborn infants! My thirty years of experience was preceded by 21 years of military experience during which I faithfully avoided every single vaccination after being subjected to the initial vaccinations given to all new trainees in boot camp. During my 21 years of military life, during which I prepared myself for my final occupation as a family doctor, I cultivated a very different opinion on the subject of vaccines and my final conclusion is that there is no such thing as a safe vaccine -the phrase is oxymoronic. One need not look too diligently to have my assertion confirmed by men much greater than I. If one fails to first consider that the most powerful vested interest in the world is in our own individual belief system and then seek out the source of that system, one does, in the case of modern medicine, completely miss the point.
Without even mentioning the fact that vaccination defies common sense and the use of simple logic, allow me to state that vaccination is the single greatest threat to human life and health today for three reasons:
1. Vaccination was born in the superstitions of Egyptian antiquity 2. Vaccines were given new life by the medieval medical quacks and drug peddling entrepeneurs of the renaissance at a time when almost nothing was known of the immune system. 3. Historical fact demonstrates that vaccination has never cured, prevented or ameliorated a single disease. The evidence is now (and has been for over a century)available to demonstrate that the plagues of old were the results of sudden population explosions with diminished food supplies.
Benjamin Sandler MD, proved beyond the question of a doubt that the polio epidemics proved to be the result of overindulgence in adulterated (high sugar) foods. The plagues of old were due to the lack of animal protein, fresh fruit and vegetables. This resulted in lowered antibody levels with the resultant overgrowth of organisms that thrive in such absences. The rats, mice, fleas and bugs are still with us but the plagues are a thing of the past. What we suffer now is a plague of a different variety, far more dangerous than the plagues of old. Our present plague is the existence of medically driven legislatures and governmental power under the sway of medical "knowitallness". The citizen had better wake up and drive this medical demon out of their governing bodies now while peaceful means to do so are still available. They certainly had better not allow their critical voices to be stilled by the vested interests in their legislatures! -----Dr Daniel H Duffy Sr Family doctor of chiropractic Geneva, Ohio USA

"Meningitis is not a transmissible disease, we do not "catch" it from one another. My first lesson in vaccine propaganda is when I learned, back in the forties, that the "epidemics" of meningitis amongst military recruits were not epidemics but clusters, and the second thing I learned was that only the freshly vaccinated recruits "caught" meningitis. The mess sergeant didn't, the drill sergeant didn't, only the recruits did. Not even the girls who worked at the base exchanges and service clubs, with whom the recruits played kissy face "caught" meningitis - only the freshly vaccinated recruits "caught" it.......In over thirty years of clinical practice I have never seen an infectious hepatitis "caught" by another member of a household and believe me when I say I really looked high and low for one of those. If I found one I would look for a source of the poisoning, not for a germ or a virus"---Daniel H Duffy Sr. DC also

"AIDS and SARS are ways for epidemiologists (e.g., the CDC, WHO, etc.) to secure their jobs and continued funding for their agencies. No new emerging epidemics, maybe no CDC, no WHO, so we've got an infrastructure that REQUIRES the "discovery" of new, threatening epidemics. And the media pick a new one every year. This year, it's SARS. For the past couple of years, it's been West Nile Virus. Next year it'll be something else."---- Dr Dan Duffy DC

"Soldiers DID die following the injections which contained mercurous chloride otherwise known as CALOMEL. There WAS a widespread campaign for mercury containing vaccines. There WAS also an outpouring of propaganda [such as our present day SARS, MONKEYPOX, SMALLPOX hype] to frighten the public, there WERE large numbers of deaths at the time, all blamed on “Spanish Flu”. Of course the Spanish Flu was just as bogus in the early 1900s as Swine Flu was in the 70s when President Ford faked his vaccination and helped set our country up for a REAL epidemic [vaccine induced, iatrogenic, Guillaine Barre syndrome]. Spanish Flu was as bogus as the more recent WEST NILE VIRUS, AIDS, SARS, SMALLPOX and MONKEYPOX is today. They are killing the innocent and the ignorant today, just as they have in the past. The deaths from the great flu epidemic of 1918 were caused by the use of CALOMEL, the major biological poison used to treat “sepsis” as it was called in those days. CALOMEL is mercurous chloride and was used by the medical quacks of that day for “anything that ailed you”. Mercury is a deadly poison." Dr. Duffy

"It is now 30 years since I have been confining myself to the treatment of chronic diseases. During those 30 years I have run against so many histories of little children who had never seen a sick day until they were vaccinated and who, in the several years that have followed, have never seen a well day since. I couldn't put my finger on the disease they have. They just weren't strong. Their resistance was gone. They were perfectly well before they were vaccinated. They have never been well since. "---Dr. William Howard Hay

"My own personal view is that vaccines are unsafe and worthless. I will not allow myself to be vaccinated again. .....The bottom line is that infectious diseases are least likely to affect (and to kill) those who have healthy immune systems. I no longer believe that vaccines have any role to play in the protection of the community or the individual. Vaccines may be profitable but, in my view, they are neither safe nor effective. I prefer to put my trust in building up my immune system."---Dr Vernon Coleman MB

"It is clear to me that the government's immunization policies, both the military and civilian, are driven by politics and not by science........The anthrax vaccine was approved without every doing a controlled clinical study. There is no long term safety data on the anthrax vaccine. The government admitted this in congressional hearings. It is a distortion of the truth to say there is substantial safety data....I have published many articles linking vaccines and diabetes. In one study, a clinical trial on the hemophilus vaccine, I showed that the risk of the vaccine exceeds the benefit. This is published by the British medical Journal."--Bart Classen (testimony)

"The CDC did two studies, one study on diabetes and one on asthma.............The studies represent pure junk science that is primarily propaganda."--Bart Classen (letter)

"Vaccines are highly dangerous, have never been adequately studied or proven to be effective, and have a poor risk/reward ratio. Most surgery is unnecessary and most textbooks of medicine are inaccurate and deceptive. Almost every disease is said to be idiopathic (without known cause) or genetic - although this is untrue. In short, our main stream medical system is hopelessly inept and/or corrupt. The treatment of cancer and degenerative diseases is a national scandal. The sooner you learn this, the better off you will be."----Dr. Allan Greenberg 12/24/2002

"The 'victory over epidemics' was not won by medical science or by doctors--and certainly not by vaccines.....the decline...has been the result of technical, social and hygienic improvements and especially of improved nutrition. Here the role of the potato...deserves special mention.....Consider carefully whether you want to let yourself or your children undergo the dangerous, controversial, ineffective and no longer necessary procedure called vaccination, because the claim that vaccinations are the cause for the decline of infectious diseases is utter nonsense."--The Vaccination Nonsense (2004 Lectures)---Dr. med. G. Buchwald ISBN 3-8334-2508-3 page 108.

I'll talk about vaccines. Number one, vaccines make people sick. They don't work. They don't protect. The use of vaccines is totally wrong! It's perfect nonsense based on fear. It's fear of the disease. So, in order for you not to get the disease I, as your doctor, am going to give the disease to you right away, but not as strong. This way your body will know about the disease and, if you ever get it in the future, you won't be as sick the second time......What they say is total nonsense. If I came to you and said, "I'm going to perform a little sexual assault on you---a small rape---because, one day you could meet a rapist and you could be raped. But, it won't be as bad the second time as the first time." This is exactly the same thing as giving someone a vaccine, or a little bit of disease. It's nonsense! Immunization is total nonsense! More than that is what's hidden from people about vaccines. They are dangerous. One child out of five has overwhelming disabilities from vaccines---neurological problems, seizures. I've got a whole list. There are plenty of books on this subject. Doctors don't even read about this. An Interview With Guylaine Lanctot, M.D. By Kenneth & Dee Burke

"The greatest threat of childhood diseases lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization.....There is no convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease."--Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.

"In the UK the government Health Authority quotes figures of the measles vaccine as being 90% effective (which means that) 90% of the recipients of the vaccine, produce a certain level of antibodies to the viral agents in the vaccine, 10% have produced no or undetectable levels of antibody. This information has NOT been derived from population studies and as we have already acknowledged, this does NOT indicate what percentage of those people are actually immune, (or, for that matter, how long that apparent immunity lasts). So, to state that the vaccine is 90% effective is somewhat misleading and at any rate inaccurate with regard to a statement of immunity in a real disease situation."--Trevor Gunn BSc

"the US National Academy of Sciences published a report in Sept 1993 in which the American Academy of paediatrics reaffirmed "its long standing position that the benefits of immunisation far outweigh the risks". However, Russell Alexander, a panel member and professor of epidemiology at the University of Washington, says he is disappointed that the panel did not compare the risk of vaccination with the risks of going unvaccinated!.....Since there was no comparison of immunisation with another procedure, or with being unimmunised, the conclusions of the American Academy of Paediatrics are not based on scientific reasoning and are almost meaningless. Their position only serves to illustrate the prejudice that exists within many of those interested in promoting vaccines."---Trevor Gunn BSc

"P.Aaby et al, Pediat Infec DisJ 8:197-200,1989---By comparing groups of children with apparently different vaccination status, this study suggests that measles vaccination reduces mortality by 30%. However, their comparisons in this study would lead one to have serious misgivings about their conclusions. The group used as a "non-vaccinated" group were in fact vaccinated between certain dates. They were found to have undetectable levels of antibody and therefore it was assumed that the vaccine did not work, hence this was used as a ‘control’ non-vaccinated group. Most of a second group of 123 individuals, vaccinated at another time were found to have responded and were therefore used as the vaccinated group. However 15 of this vaccinated group did not seroconvert and they were excluded from the results! Three of these children died!"---Trevor Gunn BSc

I was the first to announce the "autism epidemic", in 1995, and I pointed out in that article that excessive vaccines were a plausible cause of the epidemic. As you know, an enormous amount of clinical laboratory research (as opposed to epidemiological research), has been accumulated since that time, supporting my position. (I did not know then that the vaccines contained mercury, although I had been collecting data since 1967 from the mothers of autistic children, on any dental work they may have had during their pregnancy.) The evidence is now overwhelming, despite the misinformation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Institute of Medicine. The (Pretending to) Combat Autism Act By Bernard Rimland

"The evidence that vaccines are a major cause of the increase comes from a number of directions. One direction that's been largely ignored are the laboratory studies. There are at least seven laboratory studies, clinical studies, of blood, cerebral, spinal fluid, biopsies of autistic children which show huge differences between autistic children and normal children in terms of the presence of things like measles vaccine virus in their intestinal tract, for example, or their neurons. So, there's one line of evidence. Another, of course, is that we have data from thousands of parents who testify, often with videotapes and photographs and eyewitness reports, that their kid was perfectly normal. And they can demonstrate it, as I say, very conclusively with tapes until after the vaccine. The kid retreated into autism. There's just converging evidence from many, many directions."-- (Nov 2002) Bernard Rimland PhD

"McCully is but the most recent of a long list of pioneers who suffered outrageous injustices at the hands of dogmatic authorities who are so sure that they are right that they never trouble themselves to consider the evidence. How many millions of lives would have been saved if the authorities had been less smug?"--Dr Rimland http://www.autism.com/ari/editorials/dogma.html

"When the link between the use of unsafe, mercury-laden vaccine and autism, ADHD, asthma, allergies and diabetes becomes undeniable, mainstream medicine will be sporting a huge, self-inflicted and well-deserved black eye. Then will come the billion-dollar awards, by enraged juries, to the children and their families. I can't wait."--Dr Rimland

"Autism is not the only severe chronic illness which has reached epidemic proportions as the number of (profitable) vaccines has rapidly increased. Children now receive 33 vaccines before they enter school – a huge increase. The vaccines contain not only live viruses but also very significant amounts of highly toxic substances such as mercury, aluminum and formaldehyde. Could this be the reason for the upsurge in autism, ADHD, asthma, arthritis, Crohn’s disease, lupus and other chronic disorders?"---Dr Rimland

"Much attention has been focused on the MMR shot itself, whereas in all probability it is a combination of the three factors listed above: the increasing number of vaccines, the large amount of mercury, and the inherent danger of the triple vaccine.....The MMR vaccine is also especially suspect because laboratories in England, Ireland, and Japan have found evidence of MMR vaccine viruses in the intestinal tracts of autistic children, but not in control group, non-autistic children."---Dr Rimland

"They claim that autism naturally occurs at about 18 months, when the MMR is routinely given, so the association is merely coincidental and not causal. But the onset of autism at 18 months is a recent development. Autism starting at 18 months rose very sharply in the mid-1980s, when the MMR vaccine came into wide use. A coincidence? Hardly!"--Dr Rimland

"A number of clinical laboratory studies demonstrate that vaccines may cause chronic damage to the G.I. tract, immune system, brain, and other organs. Several such studies have been reported in past issues of the ARRI. Wakefield, Sabra, Singh, O'Leary and Kawashima are among the authors whose work documents lingering vaccine effect on children on the autistic spectrum, compared to normal controls. The IOM report pays little heed to this evidence, instead focusing attention on several deeply flawed epidemiological studies."---Dr Rimland

"The only safety testing that has ever been done on the pertussis vaccine in the past 50 years is an unproven method called the Mouse Weight Gain Test. The "scientists" inject the vaccine to be tested into the stomachs of baby mice. If the mice continue to gain weight and don't die right away, it is assumed the vaccine is safe and effective for humans. That's it! I'm not making this up!.......The only toxicity test required for the initial licensing of the DPT vaccine in the United States was this mouse weight-gain test 60 years ago."-----The Sanctity of Human Blood By Tim O'Shea p. 69

"Whenever we read vaccine papers the MD researchers always assume that if there are high antibody levels after vaccination, then there is immunity (immunogencity). But are antibody levels and immunity the same? No! Antibody levels are not the same as IMMUNITY. The recent MUMPS vaccine fiasco in Switzerland has re-emphasized this point. Three mumps vaccines-Rubini, Jeryl-Lynn and Urabe (the one withdrawn because it caused encephalitis) all produced excellent antibody levels but those vaccinated with the Rubini strain had the same attack rate as those not vaccinated at all, there were some who said that it actually caused outbreaks. Ref: Schegal M et al Comparative efficacy of three mumps vaccines during disease outbreak in Switzerland: cohort study. BMJ, 1999; 319:352-3."--Ted Koren DC

"The FTC lawyers said I couldn't criticize childhood vaccinations. They said I (we) terrify parents with statements about chiropractic, childhood vaccinations and natural health care."--Ted Koren DC

"Childhood vaccines are giving us a world of chronic illness: autism, developmental disorders, Asperger's Syndrome, brain tumors, leukemia, cancers, information processing disorders, impulsive violence, allergies, asthma, diabetes, Crohn's disease, intestinal disorders.(all conditions rare before mass vaccination) are just some of the vaccine associated disorders."--Ted Koren DC

"When I was seven I had pneumonia. Dr. Iserson (MD) made a house call and gave me a shot. It accidentally struck a nerve and I was left partially paralyzed with unrelenting inner leg pain. I walked around our apartment grabbing furniture so I wouldn't fall. When Dr. Iserson next arrived my grandmother brought him to my bedroom to see me. "What did you do to my grandchild?" she yelled at him. He stood there mute. She physically threw him out of our apartment (really) and called the chiropractor. After Dr. Friedland's first adjustment I could walk again. After the second one my pneumonia was gone, and after the third I was as good as new. He charged $5.00 a visit."--Ted Koren DC

"Many viral infectious diseases have been cured and can continue to be cured by the proper administration of Vitamin C. Yes, the vaccinations for these treatable infectious diseases are completely unnecessary when one has the access to proper treatment with vitamin C. And, yes, all the side effects of vaccinations...are also completely unnecessary since the vaccinations do not have to be given in the first place with the availability of properly dosed vitamin C."---Dr Thomas Levy M.D., J.D. (Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins p30)

"Amazingly, vitamin C has actually already been documented in the medical literature to have readily and consistently cured both acute polio and acute hepatitis, two viral diseases still considered by modern medicine to be incurable." - Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD

All three children had different doctors. The little girl under Klenner's care was given 10,000 mg of vitamin C as a slow intravenous "push" with a 50 cc syringe every eight hours for the first 24 hours and then every 12 hours for two more doses. Following this she was given 1,000 mg of vitamin C every two hours by mouth. Klenner also notes that a 40,000-unit dose of antitoxin was injected into the little girl's abdomen. The other two children received the antitoxin as well, but they did not receive any vitamin C. They both died but Klenner's patient survived, later becoming a nurse. ---Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins: Curing the Incurable by Thomas E. Levy, M.D., J.D.

"Acute viral hepatitis...is easily and completely curable with treated promptly with adequate doses of vitamin C ...some evidence indicates that a high dose of vitamin C for a long enough period of time would probably resolve (chronic hepatitis) as well in many of the cases.......A significant benefit of properly dosed vitamin C would be the elimination of any need or reason to vaccinate people against hepatitis."---Dr Thomas Levy M.D., J.D. (Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins pgs 60, 66)

"As a clinician, my current belief which guides my practice with these children is that any child given the HepB vaccination at birth and subsequent boosters along with DPT has received unacceptable levels of neurotoxin in the form of the ethyl mercury in the thimerosal preservative used in the vaccine. In any child with a genetic immune susceptibility (probably about one in six) this sets off a series of events that injure the brain-gut-immune system. By the time they are ready to receive the MMR vaccination, their immune system is so impaired in a great number of these children that the triple vaccine cannot be handled by the now dysfunctional immune system and they begin their obvious descent into the autistic spectrum disorder."---Jaquelyn McCandless, M.D

"In 1926, 130 members of the Dallas (Tex.) Chamber of Commerce cancelled their trip to Mexico because vaccination was required as a precedent to entrance. Nearly a 100 medical men, at a conference in Dallas, went to Mexico, after they obtained permission to enter without being vaccinated. Think this over before you submit your child to this evil and superstitious rite."--Dr Shelton DC Vaccines and Serum Evils by Herbert Shelton (c1940's)



Cdr. Megan Ryan has found that women vaccinated for anthrax during the first trimester have a higher rate of birth defects in offspring than unvaccinated women. Apparently this research was compelling enough, despite an army study to the contrary, for the FDA in 2002 to change the pregnancy warning on the vaccine label from a C (no data on risk) to a D (data suggests increased risk during pregnancy). However, the data have not yet been published. Dr. Maria Araneta, also associated with the Naval Health Research Center and University of California, has shown that GW veterans are also likelier than controls to have children with certain birth defects. My understanding of the safety of anthrax vaccine and its role in GWS ---Meryl Nass MD

Several years ago, in conjunction with the Hartford Courant newspaper, I reviewed the first 1660 anthrax vaccine adverse events reports to FDA (found in the Vaccine Adverse Effect Reporting System (VAERS)), and found that about 160 met the CDC's case definition for GWS. Most of those reporting had not been to the Gulf. ........The low rate of GWS in French troops, who were unvaccinated, had used prophylactic doxycycline and consumed cleaner, bottled water, needed explanation. The issue of whether small numbers of French troops who did develop GWS were in liaison positions, and were vaccinated alongside US and UK units, has been raised by the French Ministry of Defense, but to my knowledge has not been resolved. My understanding of the safety of anthrax vaccine and its role in GWS ---Meryl Nass MD



"With the polio vaccine we are witnessing a rerun of the medical reluctance to abandon the smallpox vaccination, which remained as the only source of smallpox-related deaths for three decades after the disease had disappeared. Think of it! For thirty years kids died from smallpox vaccinations even though no longer threatened by the disease."----Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.

"Being a skeptical soul, I have always believed that the most reliable way to determine what people really believe is to observe what they do, not what they say. If the greatest threat of rubella is not to children, but to the fetus yet unborn, pregnant women should be protected against rubella by making certain that their obstetricians won't give them the disease. Yet, in a California survey reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association, more than 90 percent of the obstetrician-gynecologists refused to be vaccinated. If doctors themselves are afraid of the vaccine, why on earth should the law require that you and other parents allow them to administer it to your kids?"--Dr Mendelsohn MD

"Doctors maintain that the (MMR) inoculation is necessary to prevent measles encephalitis, which they say occurs about once in 1,000 cases. After decades of experience with measles, I question this statistic, and so do many other pediatricians. The incidence of 1/1,000 may be accurate for children who live in conditions of poverty and malnutrition, but in the middle-and upper-income brackets, if one excludes simple sleepiness from the measles itself, the incidence of true encephalitis is probably more like 1/10,000 or 1/100,000."------Dr Mendelsohn

"I would consider the risks associated with measles vaccination unacceptable even if there were convincing evidence that the vaccine works. There isn't. While there has been a decline in the incidence of the disease, it began long before the vaccine was introduced. In 1958 there were about 800,000 cases of measles in the United States, but by 1962-the year before a vaccine appeared-the number of cases had dropped by 300,000. During the next four years, while children were being vaccinated with an ineffective and now abandoned "killed virus" vaccine, the number of cases dropped another 300,000. In 1900 there were 13.3 measles deaths per 100,000 population. By 1955, before the first measles shot, the death rate had declined 97.7 percent to only 0.03 deaths per 100,000."--Dr Mendelsohn MD

"There are significant risks associated with every immunization and numerous contraindictions that may make it dangerous for the shots to be given to your child....There is growing suspicion that immunization against relatively harmless childhood diseases may be responsible for the dramatic increase in autoimmune diseases since mass inoculations were introduced. These are fearful diseases such as cancer, leukemia, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, Lou Gehrig's disease, lupus erthematosus, and the Guillain-Barre syndrome." Dr Mendelsohn, M.D.

"Did you know that the whooping cough germ, Bacillus pertussis, when injected into animals, has long been known to lead to the secretion of insulin? In 1979, at the Fourth International Symposium on Pertussis, held in Bethesda, Maryland, it was shown that this same result occurs in those who have received pertussis vaccine. In their publication, "Adverse Reactions after Pertussis Vaccination," Drs. W. Hennessen and U. Quast suggest, "It seemed of interest to examine these reactions in comparison with the hypoglycemia syndrome.. . .There was a close relation between the two.’ If your child has juvenile diabetes (a disease characterized by wide swings in blood sugar levels), ask your doctor if he has ever heard of this effect of whooping cough vaccine. Maybe it’s time to investigate whether the pertussis vaccine has anything to do with the rapidly rising number of people with juvenile diabetes, adult diabetes, and hypoglycemic all disorders of insulin metabolism."---Dr Mendelsohn MD (the Peoples Doctor Vol 6 No10)

"Study after study has demonstrated that many women immunized against rubella as children lack evidence of immunity in blood tests given during their adolescent years. Other tests have shown a high vaccine failure rate in children given rubella, measles, and mumps shots, either separately or in combined form."---Dr Mendelsohn

"Because routine immunizations that bring parents back for repeated office calls are the bread and butter of their specialty, pediatricians continue to defend them to the death. The question parents should be asking is: ‘Whose death?’” -----Robert Mendelsohn, MD

"For a pediatrician to attack what has become the "bread and butter" of pediatric practice is equivalent to a priest denying the infallibility of the pope.-------Dr Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.

"Up to 90% of the total decline in the death rate of children between 1860-1965 because of whooping cough, scarlet fever, diptheria, and measles occured before the introduction of immunisations and antibiotics."---Dr Archie Kalokerinos, M.D. (Introduction to AIDS Time Bomb by John West)

"In 1976 I was working in the Gulf Country around Cape York, in an aboriginal community of about 300 people. The Health Department sent around a team and vaccinated about 100 of them against flu. Six were dead within 24 hours or so and they weren't all old people, one man being in his early twenties. They threw the bodies in trucks to take to the coast where autopsies were done. It appeared they had died from heart attacks".---Archie Kalokerinos M.D.

"The role of vaccines, particularly the whole-cell pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine can be understood when it is realised that this vaccine contains a variable and uncontrollable amount of endotoxin that is injected and absorbed, unaltered, into the blood. It does not even go first to the liver where attempts to detoxify it could be made. If an infant happens to be particularly sensitive to endotoxin when the vaccine is injected, brain damage or death can result....It should be now apparent that any infant with gastrointestinal problems - abnormal organisms, intestinal parasites, loose bowel motions resulting from the use of antibiotics, and malabsorption of food (including lactose intolerance) - is liable, when further stressed, to produce endotoxin and this can end in a SIDS....If the Vitamin C status of an infant is borderline, the administration of a vaccine, particularly (but not only) pertussis vaccine, can result in endotoxaemia. This results in a severe reaction to the vaccine, a tremendous increase in the need for Vitamin C, and the precipitation of some of the signs and/or symptoms of acute scurvy. The onset of this may be so rapid that the classical signs of scurvy may be absent. Sudden death, sudden unconsciousness, sudden shock or sudden spontaneous bruising and haemorrhage (including brain and retinal haemorrhages) may occur. Haemorrhage and bruising in such cases can be wrongly attributed to the ‘battered baby syndrome’."---Dr Kalokerinos MD (Medical Pioneer of the 20th century p186

"A ‘cold’, a viral infection, or anything that disturbs immune responses can result in subtle changes in the gram negative bacterial flora of the the gut, stimulating them to produce endotoxin. This is absorbed into the blood stream, not adequately detoxified, and results in inflammatory responses in the mucous membrane linings of the middle ear............ that endotoxin is the initial cause of the inflammatory response in acute otitis media............ Dr Robert Reisinger in America had first alerted me to this group of substances and their relationship to SIDS......The reason why proper breast-feeding provides a known and large amount of protection against otitis media becomes obvious. Breast-feeding tends to prevent the overgrowth of abnormal forms of intestinal organisms that tend, under certain conditions, to produce endotoxin........Finally, there are two substances that are known to be effective as rapid detoxifiers of endotoxin - Vitamin C and erythromycin -they are both in ‘Archie’s triple injection’. The relationship between SIDS, sudden unexplained shock, sudden unexplained unconsciousness, and otitis media is worthy of consideration. If endotoxin is the ‘cause’ of otitis and also the ‘cause’ of SIDS, sudden unexplained unconsciousness and unexplained shock — as I now know (at least there is a association), then otitis media should be found in a significant number of SIDS cases. That this is so is clearly demonstrated in a number of reported studies. "---Dr Kalokerinos MD (p311 Medical Pioneer)

"If the Vitamin C status of an infant is borderline, the administration of a vaccine, particularly (but not only) pertussis vaccine, can result in endotoxaemia. This results in a severe reaction to the vaccine, a tremendous increase in the need for Vitamin C, and the precipitation of some of the signs and/or symptoms of acute scurvy. The onset of this may be so rapid that the classical signs of scurvy may be absent. Sudden death, sudden unconsciousness, sudden shock or sudden spontaneous bruising and haemorrhage (including brain and retinal haemorrhages) may occur. Haemorrhage and bruising in such cases can be wrongly attributed to the ‘battered baby syndrome’."--Dr Kalokerinos MD (Medical Pioneer of the 20th century p189)

"forced me to look into the question of vaccination further, and the further I looked the more shocked I became. I found that the whole vaccine business was indeed a gigantic hoax. Most doctors are convinced that they are useful, but if you look at the proper statistics and study the instances of these diseases you will realize that this is not so . . .
My final conclusion after forty years or more in this business [medicine] is that the unofficial policy of the World Health Organization and the unoffical policy of the 'Save the Children's Fund' and ... [other vaccine promoting] organizations is one of murder and genocide. . . . I cannot see any other possible explanation. . . . You cannot immunize sick children, malnourished children, and expect to get away with it. You'll kill far more children than would have died from natural infection."--Dr Kalokerinos (International Vaccine Newsletter June 1995)

"It was similar with the measles vaccination. They went through Africa, South America and elsewhere, and vaccinated sick and starving children...They thought they were wiping out measles, but most of those susceptible to measles died from some other disease that they developed as a result of being vaccinated. The vaccination reduced their immune levels and acted like an infection. Many got septicaemia, gastro-enteritis, etcetera, or made their nutritional status worse and they died from malnutrition. So there were very few susceptible infants left alive to get measles. It's one way to get good statistics, kill all those that are susceptible, which is what they literally did." --Dr Kalokerinos, M.D.

"Only after realising that routine immunizations were dangerous did I achieve a substantial drop in infant death rates."--Dr Kalokerinos

"I well remember, some years ago, listening to a knighted medical researcher as he spoke, on the radio, about vaccines. He told two classical stories form the history books. The first concerned Edward Jenner who, according to history, watched as the milkmaid caught cowpox and this protected her from smallpox. So Jenner got some of the 'cowpox' and inoculated it into someone's arm - it fostered and the pus was then inoculated into someone else - 100% success was claimed. 100%!! How absurd - complete with all sorts of germs including hepatitis, syphilis and whatever. If one did that today, without antibiotics, the death rate would be huge."---Dr Kalokerinos, M.D.

"In October, 1972. a seminar on rubella was held at the Department of Pathology, University Department, Austin Hospital in Melbourne, Australia. Dr. Beverly Allen, a medical virologist, gave overwhelming evidence against the effectiveness of the vaccine. So stunned was she with her investigations that it caused her, like a growing number of scientists, to question the whole area related to herd immunizations. Dr. Allen described two trials: the first trial concerned army recruits who were selected because of their lack of immunity as determined by blood tests. These men were given Cendevax, an attenuated rubella virus that is supposed to protect. They were then sent to a camp which usually has an annual epidemic of rubella. This occurred three to four months after they were vaccinated, and 80% of the so-called immune recruits became infected with rubella virus. A further trial shortly after this took place at an institution for mentally retarded people with similar effects. Additional disturbing evidence was sent to us by a Melbourne GP who was in the United Kingdom at the time that Chief Health Officer Sir Henry Yellowlees, had released a press statement (February 26, 1976) informing doctors that, in spite of high vaccination figures, there had been no detectable reduction in the number of babies born with birth defects."--Dr Archie Kalokerinos & Glen Dettman "Does Rubella Vaccination Protect?," Australian Nurses Journal, reprinted in The Dangers of Immunisation p54
One finding was that when vaccines are tested for viral contamination, results of these tests differ according to the time frame in which they are performed. Reading from the report, Sneed says, “The testing of cell cultures used in vaccines is commonly done 14 to 21 days after the cells are planted, the usual period for most virologic studies. At that time, only 2-4 percent show viral infections, but if the same lots are examined 29 to 55 days after planting, a significantly higher percentage of cultures show viral infection.” Vaccines: A Second Opinion by Gary Null

Other viruses, Sneed states, appear in their complete form. She mentions the ebola virus. “This is a virus commonly found in the green tree monkey. We also have a flurry of respiratory illnesses in small children, called RSV. Everyone is saying that they don’t know why so many children are coming down with this disease. But it is a common contaminant of the vaccines that children get at an early age.”--Vaccines: A Second Opinion by Gary Null

"Now whatever virus is in the cancer cells, whatever virus is in the monkey cells, whatever virus is in the solutions that they use to make these cells grow, will pass in part together with genetic material from the monkey and genetic material from the cancer cells, there are pieces of chromosome, some genes etc. into the brew we call vaccine. When you go to the doctor you may see a very clear liquid in an injection or the pink brew that was given to us on sugar cubes. And we may think it is very sterile and very purified but it’s not. It’s just a bunch of dirty monkey soup. "--Eva Snead, M.D.

"They are running a monopoly and they will lie, cheat and steal to keep it that way....... I think that no person would permit anybody to get close to them with an inoculation if they would really know how they are made, what they carry, what has been lied to them about and what the real percent of danger is of contracting such a disease, which is minimal......And according to those figures as compared to those from the Encyclopaedia Britannica for that same year they had inoculated (in Africa) according to their statement, twenty million people more that the total population, every man woman and child of the countries in question. Now if you can lie so crassly and have enough people to back you up about lying about how many you inoculate the question may arise of have you inoculated any at all? Did you use the same …..what did you do? We don’t know anything they are saying be cause they are lying from the moment go. So you know you really have very little frame of reference excepting that there’s something very fishy in the whole process."---Dr Eva Snead
http://www.whale.to/m/quotes26.html

That's because you're not reading my posts properly!

Syzyby baby I read your cut 'n paste! Listen friend, look at that data from JAMA again. Decrease in deaths from disease correspond precisely with improvements in quality of life, such as sewer treatment, clean water etc..NOT with advent of vaccines! Especially when looking at influenza, the topic of this thread, NO decrease in flu deaths since advent of flu vaccine.

Ya know what's funny? You're sort of close to the truth here, it's just that you've got it bass ackwards.

Of course improvements in quality of health and quality of life coincide with advances in sanitation, hygiene and healthcare. I'd doubt that even the most paranoid of conspiracy theorists would doubt that.

But where does science show that vaccinations have played no part in any of this? And here's a question - why does research into things like a cancer vaccine continue if the medical community believes all vaccinations are useless?

I have a feeling you've not read the JAMA report, only looked at the graphs in the context provided by the biased and misleading Nature News article. Likewise, you've not examined the very telling data from the US Dept of Health and Human Services.

As for cut and paste - I'm not copying huge tranches of text from other websites to the score of several thousand words.