Help! I came here to Holland 2 years ago with my partner, a German, and we have been living here together since (I am from the US).

Over the past year we have become very distant, most likely because I found out that he is seeing another women from work. I think he hasn't told me because he knows that I depend on our status to stay here, but I don't see that as a way to exist in the long term.

A few months ago, a co-worker of mine, a lovely Dutch man, came clean to me of his feelings for me, and we have started seeing each other!

We are incredibly devoted to one another, despite the difficult situation that I am in, and he has asked me to move with him and has offered to be my registered partner.

My question: If my partner and I split amicably and I want to become the partner of someone else, how do I do this? I am concerned that the IND will deny the application because of the circumstances. I am also concerned that I will lose my job because I will be going from one visa to another, perhaps there will be time between the two where I am not able to work? Will my BSN # change? Will I have to go home to the US and re-apply, or can I do this all from here?

It's a shame that I have to question so many things when considering leaving a loveless relationship for one which is amazing, but I have to.

Any advice would be much appreciated. I love living and working here and I would like to do this the right way (despite the obvious dysfunction in my home life that is!)

I would wait until you have reached 3 years with your current sponsor and then apply for an independent permit. If you switch sponsors now, then it will take another 3 years or 5 years total of residency before you can obtain permanent residency and not depend on anyone else to live and work legally in the Netherlands. Of course a new application may be denied because your new love doesn't make enough money for example.
I would not admit to your current sponsor that you have a new lover especially since he doesn't admit his to you. You can move in with your new love but you must continue to be registered with your current sponsor. Your current sponsor sounds honorable enough to continue to sponsor you despite his interest for another. If it doesnt work out with your new love, then you can always go back and live with your sponsor. You have to protect yourself and keep your options open. If it doesnt work out with the new love you will be in a bad predicament if he is your sponsor. You know how your current sponsor acts despite a no love relationship. You never know how a new love will act when it is over. And I am sorry to tell you that for the most part, I have heard that the typical dutch reaction to a failed relationship is to take away sponsorship and to tell you to go back to your own country without any concern with how much you have invested yourself in the country.

I wouldn't worry.

Yes, if you can wait another year .. you can get an Independant Residence permit, however, it sounds like your life with him is hanging by a thread so maybe it's worth it to just cut your loses, get out and start again with another guy.

So .. the most important thing is to make sure your new guy is making enough to support you by IND rules .. which I think is about 1440 a month. This isn't much .. but still, verify with the IND that he does qualify as this is the only thing that will mess you up.

Hey, I have some friends that are on their 2nd and 3rd Dutch relationship and have to switched over to new sponsorships each time.

The Dutch IND does not legislate morality so if you dump one guy for another .. so what? THIS IS NOT AMERICA so they don't think God is gonna strike you down or anything. Hee hee!

They don't care .. but you have to follow the actual rules.

I think all you have to do is go down to the IND with your current boyfriend and submit the papers saying that he is no longer your sponsor.

When you are notified of this - they will tell you that since you have no sponsor - you have to leave the country in X amount of time.

Then you go down to the IND with your new boyfriend and have HIM sponsor you. You can bring along the first papers saying that you have broken with the first guy that sponsored you. No need to hide this fact. And it's not like anyone cares.

You are simply in another relationship and THAT guy will now sponsor you.

WorK? I would ask the IND guy at this second meeting if you have to quit your job until This sponsorship clears. If they say yes, try to talk to your HR and tell them the truth. Perhaps they can hold your job open for the few weeks it takes until this new sponsorship clears.

Good luck!

"Like sands through the hourglass, these are the days of our lives."

No do not declare your to IND or gemeente that the relationship is over with. If you are not willing to wait and I strongly advise you to wait til 3 years, the easiest and most smoothest thing to do is to wait for the current permit to expire and submit a new sponsor application 2 months before it expires
if it is not expiring in the next 6 months or so then submit a new application to IND after checking your new love makes the required income. If he doesnt make the minimum amount and I advise well above it because the minimum will not do with IND, then forget it. Live in blissful sin. Be sure to show your new love the application and the info he has to provide to be sure he is comfortable with submitting it because the dutch get funny with money and everything takes time to get. Dont think of submitting a new application until you have all the documentation.

LOL I wasn't expecting that .....

but is such an interesting story , I hope she is able to go with the Dutchie.

Thanks for all the support and feedback! I think it will be tough to manage changing the visa to be honest. My current partner and I did go the EU route, and it was SO easy. We came here, filled some papers, and within a couple months I had my BSN and landed my job straight away.

The Dutchie isn't earning a great deal, just a bit over the minimum required although he does has a 1 year contract working with a very well known organization. He's been there a year+ already, so at least it looks good for stability.

I think it would be fantastic if I could start a REAL life with him, as I've spent the past year of my 2 here in limbo with my current guy. I suppose I could just wait it out, but I thought it was 5 years and not 3 that I would have to wait to gain independence from the partner visa?

Of course there are also the benefits I'd gain by having a Dutch partner. It's all so hard to say.

I need to get all of my ducks in a line and figure out exactly what to do first so that I don't lose my job and lose my right to be here, because that would be the biggest heart break.

What benefit with a Dutch partner, the standard is stricter you just said it. And a one year contract isnt going to cut it with IND, so I dont know what stability you are talking about? Read other posts of people applying with one year contracts, it is a nightmare
If you dont understand if its 3 or 5 from what has already been explained then go to the ind website and look up independent (dont remember the dutch name so do a search) visa (3 yrs) vs permanent resident (5yrs)

It's not as tricky with a 1 year contract as people make it out to be-- the key is understanding what that means: it means his contract with which he earns the IND's minimum net income requirement (currently €1554.08, and yes, if he really does earn the minimum, that's just fine) has to still be valid for at least 1 year past the date that you apply for your permit as his partner. It does not matter how long he has already had the job (it doesn't help if he's had the job for a year, it doesn't hurt if he just started the job). Many employers are willing to 'bump up' a good employee's contract from (say) nine remaining months of validity to thirteen remaining months of validity to make this possible.

It certainly is a huge benefit to be with the real one you love-- and there are some marginal benefits to having a permit as the partner of a Dutch national. You can get naturalized in 3 years rather than 5, for instance. If you were to 'switch', you don't have to tell the IND you broke up with your German partner before you apply for your permit with your Dutch partner... just tell them you broke up with your German partner at the same time as you apply for your new permit, and change your address registration on the same day. It's worth your while to get legal assistance to make sure you get your application right.

But yes, you can get an independent permit (voortgezet verblijf, not quite the same as a permanent permit but close enough) after 3 years with your German partner, and then you don't have to worry about your residence status being dependent on a relationship. After January 1 you'll have to take an integration test to get it, though, unless you apply for a special type of voortgezet verblijf for exes of EU citizens that is exempt from an integration requirement (again, get legal assistance if you want to get that, because for the time being the IND does not seem to fully understand that).

Jeremy Bierbach, LLM
www.immigrate.nl

This is pretty much what I said in my first answer. The bit about the contract not being tricky is overly optimistic. This board's experience has been otherwise and while if you don't pay attention you can screw it up, it still doesnt require a lawyer as implied above
Same recommendation don't apply with just a one year contract or even a 13 month contract and don't apply if you make just above the minimum. To be safe, your partner should make a healthy amount above the minimum and have a 18month to 2 year contract.

This is been interesting. My Dutch gf and I have not been getting along so well and I think we are both thinking the relationship might be over.

I first came to the Netherlands from the U.S. back in February 2008 to apply for my visa and I think they start counting from there. I have a 5 year verblijsdocument.

Since my gf and I and still get along fine and are good friends, I'm thinking that the best option (as I have no other partner) is waiting another year and half and applying for my voortgezet verblijf?

I'm also studying for the NT2 exam, which I hope to pass in the next 6 months or so....

Just want to confirm that this is the best and only option if I choose to stay. Anohter question is if there is a way I can be registered with my partner, but actually live somewhere else? Anyone ever do that?

Best Regards and thanks for your ideas,

Friend

Your first permit would have been valid for 1 year, and if you renewed that on time to get your current permit, then this is how you can calculate the day your legal residence started. Take the expiration date of your current permit, subtract 6 years, and add 1 day. That's the day they start counting. Three years after that date you can apply for voortgezet verblijf.



That's really your best option. Not your only option, of course: if you earn enough at your current job, you can become a kennismigrant there. Or you can find another partner.



According to the law, you have to be living at the same address as your partner--but in practice, you only have to be registered at the same address as your partner. Still At Your Own Risk, though.

All due respect, but the perspective of the 'board' tends to be an external or 'black box' perspective: insert application form into one slot of the IND machine, get decision out of another slot of the IND machine, with no idea of how it internally works. From this perspective, (think of the Coca-Cola bottle falling out of the sky in The Gods Must Be Crazy) people develop urban legends about how it works, or impute some sort of human qualities to the IND machine, such as that the IND 'likes' people who earn lots of money more than it 'likes' people who don't earn so much money.

I wouldn't be in my line of work as an immigration lawyer, though, if I didn't believe that there was something fundamentally fair about the way the system works: and by that I don't mean that the rules themselves are fair, but that the rules are published (have a look!) and theoretically anybody, if they study them closely enough along with all of the related rules of Dutch law, can predict how the IND will apply them. And that is my experience. I have had plenty of clients whose partners earned just above the minimum and who got their permits, because I helped them make sure that all their T's were crossed and all their I's were dotted on the application. I have also had one client who approached me after his application was rejected: he earned exactly €1.22 under the minimum. I appealed it for him based on the fact that his income had increased to above the minimum in the meantime, but I can't really say that the initial decision of the IND was unfair, because it was predictable. The IND is just a dumb machine that works with what you give it-- a lot of the time getting rejected is no different than not being able to log into a certain website because you forgot that you used a capital letter in your password.

I contribute advice to this board because I hate to see people delivered into the clutches of superstition and disempowerment by people who think they are being helpful. Sheesh.

Good for you. I hope you continue contributing...

I like your postings, too, and hope you continue. Considering you're an attorney, they are very well written (jk) What I mean is, not too much legalese. I am still very new in the residential process. I haven't even had my first IND appointment yet. But I'm sure eventually I'll be coming to the boards for advice as I get further along.

Keep the posts coming,

April

Uh huh and nothing i said was unfactual but what actually happens so just the facts and not your soap box. As I am an attorney, you are no better than me.

I don''t believe for a single minute that you are an attorney, or even dropped out of law school. You don't even remember posting a few years ago that you were not an attorney. You just play one on this forum.

If you are an attorney like Jeremy and myself, you should have no reason to not identify yourself...unless of course, you're not really an attorney, which would explain a lot of your advice on this forum.

Christian Barth, Esq.
www.expatlaw.nl

I've just done a thorough search, using the word 'attorney' and couldn't find anywhere where he said that... he appears to have consistently said that he is an attorney (an American one), but doesn't practice law. You may have got it mixed up as he quoted the poster 'sun-n-fun' who said that he himself wasn't an attorney and not to accepts his comments as legal opinion...
I also see that the both of you seem to consistently bicker with each other so, I'll quietly leave you both to it.

Spot on wesley. I am attorney but I currently do not practice.
CB's observation skills are appalling for an attorney

I don't have to prove myself to you so just stuff it.
I am not really bothered by your opinion of me but clearly it bothers you since I am willing to challenge ambulance chasing motivated postings.
I find it strange how you and avocado do this tag team posting and puffing up each other and then random posters jump in (with low postings as if just generated for the sole purpose to emphasize that you are lawyer) and just pat you on the back. Mind you these posting are just out of the blue, very targeted obscure type of issue which I recognize as how lots of attorneys tend to postulate situations. Thus, I am not impressed and I am not fooled either.

Right, it's a vast conspiracy; that's the simplest explanation. You might get a pat on the back every once in a while too, mvn, if you stopped intimidating, belittling and discouraging people who post questions. I could compile a 'greatest hits' of ways in which you have bitten people's heads off who got up the courage to post a question because they didn't make the question complete enough for YOU to answer it, or you otherwise responded to the effect of: 'how dare you post a repeat question on MY forum' (as you have already done again today). I will withhold judgment on whether you really are an attorney or not (although you are certainly not specialized in immigration law, or even Dutch law, and your responses show little sign of thinking like a lawyer); however, what does strike me as odd is that you claim to be American, yet your English is filled with simple grammatical errors that no native speaker would make ("Same recommendation don't apply with just a one year contract..." "I am attorney..."), and peppered with Briticisms ("...so just stuff it"). I am starting to suspect that you are a bored high school kid in Hong Kong who, after reaching the highest level in World of Warcraft, decided to take on the avatar of an American knowledge migrant in the Netherlands and see how far you could go in that 'virtual' world, with the added thrill of meddling with actual people's lives. Did I guess it? Rumplestiltskin?

Don't bother trying to divert attention from your suspicious behaviour. I call it the way I see them. When you get on your soapbox, I wonder what you are trying to hide. And if I was a 10 year old, then you are getting a nice verbal tongue lashing, and not keeping up, you should be ashamed.

Well, what if they get married? I have a friend who immigrated to Belgium for her Belgian man and they got married and there were no questions asked, although they were waiting a whole year for partnership approval. I think the red tape in Belgium is way worse, but I'd think that surely marriage could be an easier option?