Loose Change 9/11: An American Coup - Official Trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ofbXOgS6I

It was probably a coup ATTEMPT. Look how shoddy the government's cover-up was. They put that thing together, the list of 19 hijackers etc., in about 2 hours. They didn't have the time to do it proper, it's obvious- look at the fact that about 1/3 of the hijackers were found to be still alive.

The 'government' as you and I know it had nothing to do with it I think, but they had to cover it up, just like dysfunctional families cover-up the misdeeds of their black sheep.

The Justice department still has not charged Osama bin Laden for any crime related to 9-11. What a giant clue that is. They find evidence to charge him for several attacks on foreign soil, yet come up with zilch on the biggest DOMESTIC attack in the country's history. Really now...

It wasn't.



It wasn't.



No they didn't.



No they were not.



I'll pay a €1 prize to anyone who can explain the logic of this nonsense.



So what?



No, it isn't.



So what?

Someone is not aware of black projects, black funding or black operations. I thought the term 'black sheep' would be a sufficient indicator.

Fook, Panatella, maybe you can tell us (in 20 words or less) who you think actually orchestrated 9/11 and why? I'm curious about your motives. (please keep it brief)

If you are referring to me(despite using the wrong name) - I can't - and neither can many other people.

Whose motives are you curious about?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/22/world/eu.../22cnd-pew.html

"In what the survey, part of the Pew Global Attitudes Project for 2006, called one of its most striking findings, majorities in Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan and Turkey — Muslim countries with fairly strong ties to America — said, for example, that they did not believe that Arabs carried out the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States."

Similar views are held with regard to 7/7.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2009...y_files_77.html

"One opinion poll by Gfk NOP for Channel 4, two years after 7 July attacks, found that around a quarter of British Muslims questioned thought the government or MI5 were involved in the bombings."

Given the fact that millions of people around the world link 9/11 to Jews, and the fact that the existence of the 9/11 denial movement gives comfort to them, and the fact that anti-semitism has been a central element in conspiracy theories for many centuries, I'm afraid the onus is on you to prove your allegations are not rooted in anti-semitism.

How can such a narrow-minded smart-arse think he knows better than anyone else?

For the record, I'm not necessarily saying you're anti-semitic (or Muslim). There have always been people who wear silver foil hats.

However, I do see you as similar to the town folk who rally to burn the Jews after an outbreak of the plague. Some events are so horrific that it's psychologically difficult to accept and the only way to handle it is to find a scapegoat. I think we underestimate the role of scapegoats in human affairs.

And finally David Aaronovitch speculates that conspiracy is the male equivalent of hysteria. Remind me to buy this book:

http://www.literaryreview.co.uk/roberts_05_09.html

Oh sorry. Mister Fook.

Thank you.

I don't pretend to know, anyone can speculate. Only a proper investigation will reveal any truth. I don't believe it was the 19 people we were told 2 hours after the attacks. Main reason is because 1/3 of them are still alive and well.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm

I don't believe it was solely, or even at all Osama bin Laden's work. Main reason is because the Justice Department has yet to uncover a shred of evidence to link or even charge him with the crime.

Stone my question to you is why do you still cling to what you were told by the msm that day? There's not a shred of evidence to support that account.

My motive is to understand the truth of who committed the crime. 'Cause I think it's important.

Speaking of scapegoats, looks to me like muslims were made scapegoats. Not to mention the populations of 2 invaded countries.

OK thanks for your explanation.

There is some evidence, of course: he confessed to it. That's enough, I would think, unless there is something else to show he didn't mastermind it.

I agree that many people blame "Muslims" for 9/11. That's not right. It was the work of psychotic fanatics.

It's also not right, really not right, that people blame Israel and the Jews. Can you honestly tell me that there is absolutely no shred of anti-semitism in your beliefs about this? And, if you can, doesn't it still make you uncomfortable that you're in the same bathtub as many people who think these things?

And I just don't believe the US govt was involved in it. Sorry.

Had a look at the YouTube trailer. Thanks for the link Mr Fook.

From there I watched 10-15 minutes of poor quality footage of what was labelled the full length version. As the quality was so poor I headed over to the official website. That had me a bit confused as all comment there seems to lead towards the premiere - which was a couple of days ago.

Back to YouTube and I find a "Loose Change - 2nd Edition - Full Version". This also seems to be somewhat poor quality. I presume this is because of the file sizes and upload times.

If I'm going to sit through it I'd rather do so in full screen and with proper quality - that way I can recline on the sofa with a bowl of popcorn or whatever

Is this online to stream, or are we expected to view a small YouTube window for the 1hr 19 minutes duration?

Certainly, the film got off to a good start. Well, it had me intrigued, so I'd like to watch it all.

How best to do so?

Stone I've never had a belief Israel was involved. I've noticed you've brought this anti-semitism idea up before. I think you're on a false crusade with this one, at least with me and pretty sure with Mister Fook too. I've attacked right-wing Israeli policies here before, and once made the mistake of trying to justify Ahmadinejad's politicization of the Holocaust- I apologized for that.

I've seen the theories it was Israel, Mossad etc.. To me that's just knee-jerk speculation and probably illustrates the growing resentment and perception in the U.S. that Israel has too much influence on U.S. foreign policy more than anything else.

You're welcome Syzygy (how do you pronounce that...ziggy ?)

I think you'd be best watching it on dvd.
To be honest,I haven't seen that many videos,dvd's,youtube clips about 911 at all.
I'd already made my mind up before many dvd's even appeared.
My opinion has always been based on a couple of books and reading a lot of forums,blogs,articles and scientific papers.

Phonetically, it's Sizz-eh-gee - but you have to say it quickly. No pausing for syllables

DVD - ah, if it's available on DVD, then yes, this is definitely the preferred option. Again, a bit confused as I thought I'd read somewhere this was an internet only release. Must take more time to digest site content before moving on to the next information snack!

Thanks again...

You're welcome.
More info here:

http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=18069

Perfect - that tells me everything I needed to know.

Just found this one. Looks good.

http://www.nyccan.org/

I'm not into these conspiracy theories at all. There's only one thing that made me wonder: You hardly heard or do hear anything about that plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. Not much media coverage about that.
All this discussions about the colapse of the twin towers seems odd to me. I'd been pretty much surprised if the towers had not collapsed after the plane crashes.

Why?
They were designed to withstand a big jet hitting them.

Did you know there was no FAA investigation of the PA crash? Huge f*cking question mark right there. How can ANYONE possibly know what was recovered from that site without the (required by law) FAA investigation?

I never put any thought into any of this until around 2003. I've never cared for conspiracies either until this. The WTC is a major focus because of the in-your-face impossibility of it. It was the physicist from MIT, think his name is Jeff King that first got me thinking about it. Namely, the bottom 2/3rds of both towers held up the top 1/3rds just fine for 30 years, but on that day they virtually moved out of the way, allowing the top 1/3 of both buildings to reach the ground at near free-fall speed around 12-15 seconds. Keeping in mind those bottom 2/3rds were not impacted by plane nor suffered any fire damage it makes no sense. Gravity alone cannot accomplish that. Also the concrete was pulverized into air-borne partical dust during the collapses. Again, gravity alone is not even remotely capable of providing enough energy for that. The mind-warping thing about the concrete is that conventional explosives are not capable of doing that either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCLHL5iToJ8

No they were absolutely not, we've been over this a thousand times.

Yes they were....and its well documented...this is just one of the many articles about it.

Anyhoos - you still beleive The Incredible Pancake Theory - even the defenders of the official lie changed their minds about that ages ago.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/sep/12/towers_built_to/

Towers built to withstand jet impact

Chicago — The World Trade Center, a symbol of American economic might, survived one terrorist attack in 1993. It was designed to withstand the impact of a jet, but both its towers collapsed Tuesday morning after planes rammed into them.

The structural engineer who designed the towers said as recently as last week that their steel columns could remain standing if they were hit by a 707.

Plumes of smoke pour from the World Trade Center buildings in New York after planes crashed into the upper floors of the 110-story buildings. The Empire State building, seen in the foreground, was the scene of a plane crash in 1945. It remained intact and reopened for business within months.
Les Robertson, the Trade Center's structural engineer, spoke last week at a conference on tall buildings in Frankfurt, Germany. He was asked during a question-and-answer session what he had done to protect the twin towers from terrorist attacks, according to Joseph Burns, a principal at the Chicago firm of Thornton-Thomasetti Engineers.

Burns, who was present, said that Robertson said of the center, "I designed it for a 707 to smash into it."

Burns, whose firm did the structural engineering for the Petronas Twin Towers in Malaysia ? the world's tallest buildings ? said Robertson did not elaborate on the remark. Robertson could not be reached Tuesday.

Completed in 1972 and 1973, the 110-story twin towers were the fifth- and sixth-tallest buildings in the world. One World Trade Center, finished in 1972, was briefly after its construction the world's tallest building. The towers have been called "a monumental gate to New York and the United States."

They withstood the 1993 attack, when a bomb-laden van exploded, killing six people and injuring more than 1,000.

Closely spaced steel columns that ringed their perimeter held up the World Trade Center towers. Chicago's Aon Center (formerly the Amoco Building), completed in 1973, uses a similar support system, known to structural engineers as a "tube."

Shocked by the building's collapse, structural engineers pointed to fire as the likely cause of the structural failure.

"Fire melts steel," Burns said. In addition, he said, the impact of the plane could have severely damaged the building's sprinklers, allowing the fire to rage, despite fireproofing supposed to protect steel columns and beams.

"You never know in an explosion like that whether they (the sprinklers) get cut off," Burns said.

Tuesday's attack marked the second time that a plane has crashed into a New York City skyscraper, although the first incident was an accident.

In 1945, a B-25 flying at 200 miles per hour slammed into the 78th and 79th floors of the Empire State Building, gouging an 18-by-20-foot hole 913 feet above the streets of Manhattan. The pilot, Lt. Col. William F. Smith Jr., had been heading from New York's LaGuardia Airport to Newark, N.J., when he became disoriented.

Fourteen people died in the crash and the fire that followed ? three people in the plane and 11 in what was then the world's tallest building.