mr.fook
Sep 16 2009, 11:10 AM
The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report About 9/11 Is Unscientific and False
By David Ray Griffin
At 5:20 in the afternoon on 9/11, Building 7 of the World Trade Center collapsed, even though it had not been struck by a plane and had fires on only a few floors. The reason for its collapse was considered a mystery. In August 2008, NIST (the National Institute of Standards and Technology) issued its report on WTC 7, declaring that "the reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery" and that "science is really behind what we have said." Showing that neither of these claims is true, David Ray Griffin demonstrates that NIST is guilty of the most serious types of scientific fraud: fabricating, falsifying, and ignoring evidence. He also shows that NIST's report left intact the central mystery: How could a building damaged by fire--not explosives--have come down in free fall?
"A definitive study of what happens when political concerns are permitted to override science and the scientific method. With intellectual finesse worthy of a scientist, Griffin shows that NIST's WTC 7 report has no scientific credibility. A must read for all concerned with the restoration of science to its 'rightful place' in our democracy."--John D. Wyndham, Ph.D., Physics, Cambridge University; former Research Fellow at the California Institute of Technology
"David Ray Griffin has written a powerful book that asks disturbing questions and seeks to debunk myths about September 11. It is provocative, well-researched, and beyond convincing."--Rosie O'Donnell
"David Ray Griffin has provided a comprehensive dismantling of NIST's theory about WTC 7, according to which it suffered global collapse because of ordinary building fires. Besides showing that NIST committed massive scientific fraud, Griffin also points out that NIST was able to complete its theory only by affirming a miracle: a steel-framed high-rise building coming down in free fall even though explosives had not been used to remove its columns."--Richard Gage, member of American Institute of Architects; founder of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
"During my 33 years as a research physicist at the Naval Research Laboratory, it was my great joy to be able to contribute to the advancement of science without the slightest interference by NRL officials. So I was sickened to read in David Ray Griffin's assiduously researched book of unequivocal evidence for massive scientific fraud committed by a politicized NIST. I implore President Obama to end the subversion of science at NIST and open a new, unfettered, investigation of the 9/11 attacks." –David L. Griscom, Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science and of the American Physical Society
"If you consider it important that the US government's science agencies provide truthful information to the public, this book by David Ray Griffin is a must read. It shows beyond a shadow of doubt that NIST's report on the 'collapse' of WTC 7 did not tell us the truth."--Dwain Deets, former Director for Research Engineering at NASA Dryden Flight Research Center
"Once again, David Ray Griffin has taken on a complicated piece of the 9/11 story and made it understandable. Whether you are a novice about 9/11 or have been following the inconsistencies of the government's story closely, you will find Griffin's new book enlightening."--Lorie Van Auken, widow of Kenneth Van Auken, who was killed at WTC 1 on 9/11, and member of the Family Steering Committee for the 9/11 Commission
"Based on my engineering knowledge and experience, I fully agree with Dr. Griffin's conclusion that NIST's report on the collapse of WTC 7 is pseudo-science, containing claims that are misleading and even outright false. Numerous contradictions exposed by outside experts during the public review process were completely ignored, because they did not fit NIST's contrived explanation."--Jack Keller, Fellow of the American Society of Civil Engineers; member of the National Academy of Engineering
"In 2004, over 15,000 scientists charged that the Bush administration had engaged in persistent 'distortion of scientific knowledge for partisan political ends.' In this book, David Ray Griffin shows that NIST's report on the destruction of WTC 7 is plagued throughout with various forms of scientific fraud, all of which point to a deliberate effort to avoid the extensive evidence that WTC 7 was brought down by controlled demolition."--Earl Staelin, attorney in Denver, Colorado
"Professor Griffin's meticulous dissection of NIST's WTC 7 report shows just why its theory of fire-induced progressive collapse is wholly inadequate and essentially fraudulent, and why the actual demise of this huge building could have been brought about only by intentional demolition, which could have been set up and carried out only by domestic forces."--Tony Szamboti, mechanical engineer and former member of the US Navy
David Ray Griffin has published 35 books in philosophy (including philosophy of science), religion, and politics. His previous book about 9/11, The New Pearl Harbor Revisited, was a Publishers Weekly "Pick of the Week" in November 2008.
The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report About 9/11 Is Unscientific and False is available at Interlink Books (http://www.interlinkbooks.com) and at local bookstores for $20.
no pasaran!
Sep 16 2009, 01:19 PM
The very first line from his wikipedia page.
QUOTE
David Ray Griffin (born 1939) is a retired professor of philosophy of religion and theology.
Which of course makes him an expert on collapsing buildings!
mr.fook
Sep 16 2009, 05:42 PM
QUOTE (no pasaran! @ Sep 16 2009, 01:19 PM)

The very first line from his wikipedia page.
Which of course makes him an expert on collapsing buildings!
No - but a lot of the people who recommend his books are experts in their field.
And?
Is David Ray Griffin also a conspiracy 'nut' ?
Dig deep Cow.
PanatellaFred
Sep 22 2009, 03:03 PM
"If you consider it important that the US government's science agencies provide truthful information to the public, this book by David Ray Griffin is a must read. It shows beyond a shadow of doubt that NIST's report on the 'collapse' of WTC 7 did not tell us the truth."--Dwain Deets, former Director for Research Engineering at NASA Dryden Flight Research Center
PanatellaFred
Sep 22 2009, 03:04 PM
"Based on my engineering knowledge and experience, I fully agree with Dr. Griffin's conclusion that NIST's report on the collapse of WTC 7 is pseudo-science, containing claims that are misleading and even outright false. Numerous contradictions exposed by outside experts during the public review process were completely ignored, because they did not fit NIST's contrived explanation."--Jack Keller, Fellow of the American Society of Civil Engineers; member of the National Academy of Engineering
PanatellaFred
Sep 22 2009, 03:06 PM
"Professor Griffin's meticulous dissection of NIST's WTC 7 report shows just why its theory of fire-induced progressive collapse is wholly inadequate and essentially fraudulent, and why the actual demise of this huge building could have been brought about only by intentional demolition, which could have been set up and carried out only by domestic forces."--Tony Szamboti, mechanical engineer and former member of the US Navy
PanatellaFred
Sep 22 2009, 03:07 PM
"A definitive study of what happens when political concerns are permitted to override science and the scientific method. With intellectual finesse worthy of a scientist, Griffin shows that NIST's WTC 7 report has no scientific credibility. A must read for all concerned with the restoration of science to its 'rightful place' in our democracy."--John D. Wyndham, Ph.D., Physics, Cambridge University; former Research Fellow at the California Institute of Technology
mr.fook
Sep 22 2009, 04:00 PM
QUOTE (no pasaran! @ Sep 16 2009, 01:19 PM)

The very first line from his wikipedia page.
Which of course makes him an expert on collapsing buildings!
There's a few experts on collapsing buildings here too:
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/Where you'll also find military experts and pilots.
mr.fook
Sep 22 2009, 05:00 PM
QUOTE (no pasaran! @ Sep 16 2009, 01:19 PM)

The very first line from his wikipedia page.
David Ray Griffin (born 1939) is a retired professor of philosophy of religion and theology.
Which of course makes him an expert on collapsing buildings!
He is a true hero.
Here he is speaking on Norwegian national tv.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p93aLAi2jBIHe seems perfectly sane to me.
It won't be too long before most people don't beleive the official story....or the people that wrote it and /or defended it.
no pasaran!
Sep 22 2009, 08:00 PM
QUOTE
It won't be too long before most people don't beleive the official story...
Yes, you keep saying that. However, when I posted proof that the number of people believing your 'truther' bollocks was actually
falling, you conveniently failed to respond.
PanatellaFred
Sep 22 2009, 10:08 PM
I wonder what's gotten into all these engineers, architects and PhD physicists? I wonder if it's contagious? Not even NASA, Cambridge or MIT has been spared! No pasaran do you reckon you're immune?
stone
Sep 23 2009, 08:52 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008...nspiracies.htmlThe more high profile and outrageous the act the more difficult to keep it secret. Richard Clarke added that in all the 30 years he'd had top level intelligence clearance nearly all the key secrets he'd seen had become public.
The former counter-terrorism adviser is adamant that the theories that a third tower, called World Trade Center Building 7, was brought down by a controlled demolition is not possible:
"Hundreds of people thousands of people would have had to have been involved and know about it and it most surely would have leaked out."
...
Richard Clarke also made the point that any conspiracy on 9/11 would have been unbelievably risky for Bush or Cheney:
"The risk to them would be personally, that they would go to jail for the rest of their lives. That they would have their name blackened throughout history, and that their political party would be destroyed. Everything that they had ever worked for their party for their family, for themselves, would be utterly smashed."
And more:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008...heo.html?page=7
mr.fook
Sep 23 2009, 09:07 AM
QUOTE (no pasaran! @ Sep 22 2009, 08:00 PM)

Yes, you keep saying that. However, when I posted proof that the number of people believing your 'truther' bollocks was actually falling, you conveniently failed to respond.
The number of people who question the official story has increased.
You haven't posted any proof Cow.
Like I said - don't flatter yourself.
PanatellaFred
Sep 23 2009, 12:46 PM
QUOTE (stone @ Sep 23 2009, 09:52 AM)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008...nspiracies.htmlThe more high profile and outrageous the act the more difficult to keep it secret. Richard Clarke added that in all the 30 years he'd had top level intelligence clearance nearly all the key secrets he'd seen had become public.
The former counter-terrorism adviser is adamant that the theories that a third tower, called World Trade Center Building 7, was brought down by a controlled demolition is not possible:
"Hundreds of people thousands of people would have had to have been involved and know about it and it most surely would have leaked out."
...
Richard Clarke also made the point that any conspiracy on 9/11 would have been unbelievably risky for Bush or Cheney:
"The risk to them would be personally, that they would go to jail for the rest of their lives. That they would have their name blackened throughout history, and that their political party would be destroyed. Everything that they had ever worked for their party for their family, for themselves, would be utterly smashed."
And more:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008...heo.html?page=7 Who says Bush or Cheney were involved? Clarke is trying to understand something that no one can ever know without a proper investigation. Common mistake.
PanatellaFred
Sep 23 2009, 01:02 PM
Stone, No Pasaran! I don't doubt you're neither any less sharp than most of the knives in the drawer, but forgive me if I put more credence in the writings of a Ph.D. of Physics from Cambridge University and former Research Fellow at the California Institute of Technology than either of your scintillating retorts.
Here's John Wyndham's refutation of the NIST report of WTC7. It only takes 10 minutes to read, and it's really good.
Would love to see if either of you can find any flaw in his logic:
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blo...08/09/09/p28469
stone
Sep 23 2009, 09:03 PM
Do you realise that when one googles "John D. Wyndham" this Expatica post is the 10th item that appears in the list?
Anyway, I've read it PF.
It all sounds very scientific, etc. although I have no idea if the statements made there are true or not. This thread just makes me realise that a lot of educated people can be sucked into shit like this.
I'm wondering what it would be like to live in a world in which I thought the American government had planned and executed the mass murder of thousands of its citizens in some strange ploy to...what? avenge Israel? Is that you think? It's just too bizarre to comtemplate. What strange dark forces do you think would be behind this?
And it's not clear to me what this theory of "WTC7" means to you. How would the demolition have been set up? How is it possible that none of the hundreds people involved would have said anything? And are you suggesting it was set up before the aircraft struck the other towers?? Why?
Syzygy
Sep 23 2009, 09:19 PM
QUOTE
The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report About 9/11 Is Unscientific and False
By David Ray Griffin
Books like this can make for very interesting reading. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and they are allowed to freely express that opinion.
Is he right - is he wrong? Such things are rarely so black and white or clear cut. Arguments and logic can be persuasive in some parts, yet flawed in others. It all makes for interesting debate material.
Once an individual has read the book they are fully entitled to voice their thoughts on the opinions presented.
Me, I love a good conspiracy theory. All I've read have compelling truths in them, but that doesn't mean a theory is thus completely proven; it just adds to the intrigue, suspense, drama and doubt over which version of the many truths is correct - or are they all correct - in part? Or, indeed, are the versions of the truths as presented on all sides shrouded in lies?
I, for one, have no clear answers - I'm just a reader with a passing interest; a reader typically presented with very few pieces of what invariably is a massively complicated 3-dimensional jigsaw. I couldn't possibly know what the 'truth' is - only express my opinion based on what I've absorbed.
Will likely check the book out and see what the reviews say...
stone
Sep 23 2009, 09:43 PM
I think the floodgates opened after Watergate (get it?). Or maybe we have a gene that requires some kind of "belief", and as faith dies, this is what rushes in to take its place.
http://www.literaryreview.co.uk/roberts_05_09.html"Of course, ever since Watergate, Hollywood has done all in its power to foster the notion that huge conspiracies are the driving force behind everything. Movies in which the US government in its various forms is the hidden enemy, and moral corruption goes to the very top of politics and crime-fighting, have polluted the American polity for thirty-five years now. Films like Three Days of the Condor, The Manchurian Candidate, Rambo, The Forgotten, The Day After Tomorrow, E.T., The X-Files, Assault on Precinct 13, The Pacifier, Danger Island, Mission Impossible, Quantum of Solace, and so interminably on, all rely upon the underlying assumption that the CIA or other shadowy government agencies have unlimited power and sinister motives. Politicians and policemen, who were once portrayed as role models, are now routinely depicted as treacherous and corrupt. The result of over three decades of such unrelenting celluloid fare is that more Americans than ever before are willing to believe that the world is really run by the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderburg Conference, Bohemian Grove, Le Cercle and other such perfectly innocent bodies."
PanatellaFred
Sep 24 2009, 10:25 AM
QUOTE (stone @ Sep 23 2009, 10:03 PM)

Do you realise that when one googles "John D. Wyndham" this Expatica post is the 10th item that appears in the list?
Anyway, I've read it PF.
It all sounds very scientific, etc. although I have no idea if the statements made there are true or not. This thread just makes me realise that a lot of educated people can be sucked into shit like this.
I'm wondering what it would be like to live in a world in which I thought the American government had planned and executed the mass murder of thousands of its citizens in some strange ploy to...what? avenge Israel? Is that you think? It's just too bizarre to comtemplate. What strange dark forces do you think would be behind this?
And it's not clear to me what this theory of "WTC7" means to you. How would the demolition have been set up? How is it possible that none of the hundreds people involved would have said anything? And are you suggesting it was set up before the aircraft struck the other towers?? Why?
Stone I don't know! And I agree, it's too strange to contemplate, and I try not to. Trying to fill in the grey areas will drive you mad.
But let's not turn off our brains either.
I can imagine there are probably unaccountable compartments of government that operate out of range from the accountable parts. That's a far as I'm willing to speculate.
I know that Afghanistan was the source of 95% of the world's heroin before the Taliban eradicated it. And just a year or two after 9-11 those levels were back. Motive is not difficult to find really.
To be honest, I didn't like the in-your-faceness of 9-11. The hubris of it has sort of pissed me off. So yeah, I'd love to see the thing exposed and I really don't care at all who or what it brings down. Really.
mr.fook
Sep 24 2009, 04:47 PM
QUOTE (Syzygy @ Sep 23 2009, 09:19 PM)

Books like this can make for very interesting reading. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and they are allowed to freely express that opinion.
Is he right - is he wrong? Such things are rarely so black and white or clear cut. Arguments and logic can be persuasive in some parts, yet flawed in others. It all makes for interesting debate material.
Once an individual has read the book they are fully entitled to voice their thoughts on the opinions presented.
Me, I love a good conspiracy theory. All I've read have compelling truths in them, but that doesn't mean a theory is thus completely proven; it just adds to the intrigue, suspense, drama and doubt over which version of the many truths is correct - or are they all correct - in part? Or, indeed, are the versions of the truths as presented on all sides shrouded in lies?
I, for one, have no clear answers - I'm just a reader with a passing interest; a reader typically presented with very few pieces of what invariably is a massively complicated 3-dimensional jigsaw. I couldn't possibly know what the 'truth' is - only express my opinion based on what I've absorbed.
Will likely check the book out and see what the reviews say...
I'm ordering thru The Book Depository (free shipping from uk!)
David Ray Griffins 'Debunking 911 Debunking' is a good read and gives you more information on certain anamolies that were not even mentoioned in the msm.
The chapter about how the fighter jets were left standing on the tarmac for over half an hour waiting for the order to go is a bit complicated but the whole book is all quite an 'easy' read.
Syzygy
Sep 24 2009, 11:26 PM
QUOTE
David Ray Griffins 'Debunking 911 Debunking' is a good read...
A controlled demolition of the official story... says one reviewer on Amazon! Nice! Possibly one to add to my Christmas list...