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tudor_geo
It is obvious that the Creator employs natural laws in making the world work. As a perfect and all-knowing Being, the Creator has made for our Universe a perfect set of natural laws and physical constants (natural perfection does not imply the absence of evil). If he would need to adapt these laws of circumvent them by producing miracles, this would mean that our Creator was not competent enough to produce a perfect set of natural laws, since if the set of natural laws needs miracles in order to become perfect, then the mind which conceived such laws is not perfect, since it could not conceive a perfect set of laws.

Therefore, starting from the idea that there is a Creator of the world and that such Creator is perfect, we necessarily reject the existence of miracles. Since Biblical creationism and even intelligent design need that the Creator intervenes in the work of the natural laws, we reject both theories, since the definition of a miracle is the circumvention of natural laws by a supernatural entity.

For those who put their faith in God, the conclusion is that the Bible and intelligent design cannot be taken seriously in explaining our world as it really is. Evolutionist creationism may explain biology: God created our Universe according to a set of natural laws which led to the apparition of intelligent life.
tudor_geo
And here is the dilemma: if God cannot break his own laws, he is not all-powerful; if he needs to do it, his mind is imperfect, therefore he is not all-knowing. Either way, God loses one of his customary attributes. Of course, there is a way out of this, namely to say that God can break his own laws, but he has never done it and will never do it.
papasutra
Things must arise of their own accord. To create must be new and novel. This infinite being has infinite abilities and knowledge. Why just create something only to micro manage it? It would be futile. Rather, it is creating the universe and having things develop on their own - that is the point of the whole of creation.
tudor_geo
QUOTE (papasutra @ Nov 5 2009, 12:03 AM) *
Things must arise of their own accord. To create must be new and novel. This infinite being has infinite abilities and knowledge. Why just create something only to micro manage it? It would be futile. Rather, it is creating the universe and having things develop on their own - that is the point of the whole of creation.

Seems like a red herring. All created things are kind of new and novel, since there were no such things before Creation.

Anyway, what I believe is that laws manage Creation, it is not God who manages Creation. I.e., God is inactive, takes no action, does not intervene in Creation. Creation is like clockwork: it runs by itself.
papasutra
QUOTE (tudor_geo @ Dec 3 2009, 02:12 AM) *
Seems like a red herring. All created things are kind of new and novel, since there were no such things before Creation.

Anyway, what I believe is that laws manage Creation, it is not God who manages Creation. I.e., God is inactive, takes no action, does not intervene in Creation. Creation is like clockwork: it runs by itself.


Exactly, what was there before creation? But a "red herring"....nope.

A conception of God is perfectly compatible with science - even a God that requires evolution. A view of God that can be defended logically, is rational, sensible and does not violate the law of Physics.

The more that we look at the structure of the universe – the more it looks like there is an [intelligence] - a greater meaning - behind it. The universe is more a thought than a machine.
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