Hi,

I'm after some advice.
My partner and I recently bought a tiny apartment in the center of Amsterdam.
We now have the tricky job of renovating it to make it livable.

Has anyone done any apartment renovations in Holland?
Any advice?
Any recommendations on:
- builders?
- electricians?
- plumbers?
- structural engineers? (we need someone to do some calculations for us)
(we already have the design work done, as I could do that myself)

We are thinking about bringing a builder-friend over from home as the main contractor (just because this whole process is so scary, and we know and trust him) - but that brings a whole other load of complications - like tools, and trade rates, etc.

Any advice? Suggestions?

Thanks in advance!
Miriam.

Any advice? Suggestions?

Loads of advice and suggestions could be given here, but without pics, they would be very vague and possible of no use.
Perhaps it would be better to meet and chat over a coffee / beer. I have been working here in Amsterdam as a subbie for more then I'd like to say I have seen many horrors and tried , sometimes in vain to sort them out, but now I stick to what I know inside out and that is joinery and cabinetry.
Hope this helps PM me if you want to.

all the best with your new gaff.

Karl

You can hire any kind of tool you need over here: Boels Verhuur or even the Gamma, Praxis etc. (DIY stores). If your friend can do the job and stay over and continue to work in evenings I would go for him as you can trust him.

I have dealt with many Dutch workers: they are well qualified and certified, experienced and helpfull. I would say 50% of them do not work 8 hrs per day due to various excuses but deliver an excellent result.

But watch out for "cowboys" in the city who will not rip you off but will deliver a crappy job. Secondly watch out for Polish, Bulgarian workers as they could be unqualified. Dutch standards are very high!!!!

It's always very difficult making up your mind in these.

I wish you luck

Hi,

thanks both of you for your suggestions.

Pindakaas:
'Boels Verhuur' looks extremely useful. thank you!
do you have any details for the dutch workers that you've dealt with and would recommend? (if they are in Amsterdam). I don't mind the less-than-8-hours if they are honest and do a good job.

houtslager:
i will message you. thanks!

Can not help you there....I do not live in Amsterdam!

Always make sure the workers are CERTIFIED (see logo on their van, website, papers,...). If you do have differences you are more able to get your money back if they are certified ("aangesloten bij de brachevereniging")

You will have to shop around but with the financial crisis at the moment you could be in for a nice surprise!?

Oh boy do I wish that I had asked the very same questions on here a few years ago... We're at the moment going through renovations to our flat and my experience has been a bit of a nightmare to be honest. But then I do have a very high standard of how I want things so may be it's partly my fault I suppose... well, there has been highs and lows, may be by the end of the year I can look back and say that it was all worth it, but not at the moment. I'm hating every minute of it.

Hi,

well, we finished our renovations, and have some advice if it helps anyone:

1. PEOPLE
Do NOT go with the builder we used. Karl Wissinger (aka: Houtslager; thewoodbutcher.eu; Wissinger Interiors). Why?
He went over budget, obscenely over time, and well under quality. (I'll put the full details in a follow up post)*
The cabinet makers (who had to fix Karl's work) were very good and professional www.2denw.nl

2. PERMITS:
Rubbish skips require permits from council - so book at least three weeks in advance.
Moving cranes also need permits, but the moving firms should arrange it for you.
Anything structural needs a permit from council, this should be submitted by an architect or engineer.
Anything that affects the other apartments in your building will require permission from your building association.

3. SHOPS:
Ikea is your friend! seriously, we are very happy with the quality of everything we got from Ikea. And, of course their price is unbeatable. They deliver, and you can pay for them to install items as well.

Praxis and Gamma (large hardware stores) have proved extremely useful. Not just for tools and fittings, but for floor and wall coverings as well (we bought all our tiles from there, they were both cheap and beautiful). - The Praxis mega centers were by far the most useful - and they deliver.

We bought our shower fittings from nl.hudsonreed.com (stylish showers at incredibly cheap prices)

We got our flooring from Stox (www.stox.nl) - they have a very good collection.

Lights were mainly from Ikea and Praxis - the specialist lighting stores just couldn't beat them for price, and, if you pick carefully, they look excellent.

We would have used warmteservice for the central heating, ventilation etc, but in the end the plumber sourced it himself.

And, everything electronic was from www.bobshop.nl. They were far cheaper, and had a far better range than any of the physical stores. I was a bit nervous about ordering so much from a Dutch-only site but everything went smoothly. (I translated bits as I went with google translate)

4. THINGS TO WATCH OUT FOR

- I don't know how common this is, but we had no 'underfloor cavity'. Literally the floorboards we were walking on were our neighbour's ceiling.

- If you don't have a phone line going in to your apartment you'll need to contact KPN. They take WEEKS so make sure you book early.

- Be aware, if you have to pay for your contractor's carparking - central Amsterdam parking is obscenely expensive (this put over 500 euro extra on our bill, something we hadn't budged for at all.)

---------

I hope this helps anyone else renovating.

Good luck!

Yours

Miriam.

And, a follow up post for anyone interested in what went wrong with the builder.

(The bad builder is Karl Wissinger. He also calls himself Houtslager and Wissinger Interiors. He can be found on the web at http://thewoodbutcher.eu and on this site at http://www.expatica.com/community/profile/32793.html).

PRICE:
- His quotes are cheap, but they are not accurate. He went 3000 euro over budget on the first pass carpentry. (the original budget was 2000, the final price was 5000). The second pass carpentry would have gone the same way but we refused to pay more than agreed. And the entire painting budget only covered the first third of the painting (the rest is still not done)

SCHEDULE:
- In the end the apartment went more than 3 months overdue - double the time that was originally agreed.

QUALITY:
There are numerous quality issues with the apartment. Some of these are:
- The new wall is crooked, meaning that you get a strange angle with one of the sliding doors
- He didn't add bottom rails with the sliding doors so they rattle
- The top sliding rails are not flat so the doors don't hang properly
- The shower floor squeaks so badly that we can't use it at night for fear of waking out neighbour downstairs
- We had to make him relay the floor. - The underfloor heating hadn't been installed properly, so the floor boards weren't supported adequately (they were wobbly to walk on and the edges were breaking)
- The shower door won't close properly (we already have water damage because of this), this was on my snagging list as the most urgent item. It simply never happened.
- We had to make him take away most of the doors he made because they were just so ugly. They were crooked, mismatched and had jagged edges. Not all of these were replaced, of those that weren't fixed by another company the rest will need serious DIY work to make them look semi-ok.
- And there are numerous small items - skirting which isn't stuck down properly, mouldings which don't match, loosely hung lights, crocked panels etc.

NOT REALISTIC ABOUT HIS OWN SKILLS
After weeks and weeks of problems and mistakes with the large folding table he had to get another company to finish it off - finally admitting that he did not have the skills to do it himself.

LACK OF CARE
Watching him work was an experience. It wasn't just the swearing and banging, but the way he never had the right tools with him and how careless he was with our apartment. There are numerous nicks and dents around the house. The highlight however, was when he dropped the folding table from the second story because he hadn't tied the rope properly.

LACK OF PLANNING
I had asked him to work out the practical parts of design (location of plumbing, wiring, mechanisms for the doors & table etc). However, because of the decisions he made (and I agreed to without checking because I trusted him) the sliding doors can't all be open at the same time, and we have a gouge in one of our walls because there wasn't enough room for the pipes.

RELIABILITY
There were constant problems with him turning up either late or not at all, and problems getting in touch with him.

---

So, for anyone looking for a builder, I would seriously recommend that you avoid Karl at all costs.

Crikey, I bet the sound proofing is bad... we have about 6 inches of concrete plus 3 inches of cement and I still hear stuff!

We're on the top floor of our building, so that's our neighbours problem Specially if the gf is in heels coming back at 3am or something.

Thanks for that, we'll may be give them a look next time...

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