Okay, I think I'm a first: I've been told today I need to REinbugger. Apparently, it didn't stick in the first place.

I have the certificate, but flunked the spreken profieltoets (when they had such a thing) back in 2006...Which probably had a lot to do with the fact that I was forced to take the test six months early. Long story.

But regardless, I was told today that my certificate is worthless, and that I need to either pay €270 to re-register with the Nova College program that messed things up in the first place or find another way to please the powers that be within the next five years.

That may sound as if I have all the time in the world, but, the thing is, four years after moving here, I can't speak worth a damn, and can't really clock onto most conversations either. I need intensive help, which the original inbuggering program didn't have the resources to provide to somebody who had to attend at night.

Ideally, I need private conversation lessons. In the evenings. In Haarlem or Amsterdam. Can anyone recommend somebody who is reasonably priced and incredibly patient with an older, traumatised, unilingual learner with no talent for learning languages whatsoever?

After doing the very expensive A1 and A2 at the James Boswell Institute in Utrecht and still not being able to speak dutch..I decided to try this guy about 6 weeks ago: http://www.lasu.nl/index.htm

I really, really like him. His lessons are decently priced (250 for 10 one hour lessons), completely 1 on 1, and he personalizes his lessons to your needs. And I can attest, he's really, really patient because I know I've tried that patience already a few times over.

Oh, I'm intrigued, thank you!! I'll look into it!!

Idyparadox...thanks so much.

Had my assessment appointment on Tuesday with that guy you recommended. My first private lesson is a week Saturday (wow...lessons while I'm awake, what a concept. ).

I decided he was alright five minutes into the appointment. He asked me whether I had taken language lessons before. I replied, "I took inburgeringscursus..." and he replied, "Yes, but they're not REALLY language lessons, are they?"

Meanwhile, in gemeente Heemstede, that Rita-Verdonk-lovin' cow didn't get back to me in a week like she was supposed to to find out whether I decided to take her up on her offer to redo my inbuggering all over again.

I guess she realized that, despite her, erhm, misinformation and coersion techniques (I mean, did you know that there's no such thing as an NT2-II staatsexamen anymore? News to me...), I wasn't going to help her reach her government-mandated quota...

are you sure theres no more statsexamen?? Or do they mean the Niveau 2 etc from the inburgering we did - those are gone, replaced with an EU standard of A1 A2 B1 B2 etc levels. I am pretty sure the NT2-1 and NT2-2 still exist! http://www.expertisecentrumnt2.nl/staat/staat2008/
http://www.ib-groep.nl/particulier/Informa...tweede_taal.asp

You can still sign up for it - and if your new teacher is any good its worth aiming for, as once you have it they cant come back to you to do anything more. (and IMO its not like you have to be really fluent to pass it either).

Glad you found a good teacher

Sucks that they can require you to inburger again! Is that legal??

Of course, there's the NT2-II Staatsexamen. She was lying through her teeth about that...and about what law I fell under. I have a feeling she was under pressure for low inbuggering registration in the gemeente and was trying to save her butt...

She did say I didn't have to take inbuggering classes, but that I had better pass the test within five years or be fined...

oh I see.... So in other words nothing she says at all can be trusted. Can you find out elsewhere what your rights are once you have the inburgering certificate? As far as I know you dont have to do anything else, unless you apply for citizenship, THEN you have to show at least a level 2, or in your case since you dont have it, pass the naturalisation exam. As far as I know you dont have to do anything more than you have already. It gets to the point of principle - if you are learning dutch now and having lessons, its nicer for you to know youre doing it for yourself, and not because some little jumped up gemeente liar has said you have to.

You have it right, according to what I've heard and been told. The NT2-II Staatsexamen and the Korte Vrijstellingstoets are acceptable proof as well, as far as I know (and the Liar did say I could do that test too, but I thought the NT2-II would look better on a CV, and takes about the same amount of study, from what I've heard!).

She was supposed to call Ruud last Monday to find out whether I would accept reinbuggering or not. She never did...So I assume she did some homework after we told her what we thought of our last experience with the system...since we didn't appear to be people who could be easily snowed...

Glad you like him, I know I do. I think he's done more for me confidence wise than any of the expensive classes I took.

ldyparadox99, I'd also like to say thank you very much for that link. I just had a look and saved it to my favourites, only to find I already had it in there!
I will look into taking things further during this year, 2009... this is exactly what I'd like, a small group or 1 on 1, or a mixture of both for a reasonable price. I can't understand why I hadn't looked into it before as I already had it in my favourites. Anyway, thanks...

I've had four classes with him so far Wes, and he's super nice and super patient and treats you like a friend sharing his expertise. I always leave the class motivated to carry on (albeit exhausted because of the intense one-to-one) which for me is progress, I'm forced to admit!

Thanks, I'm glad to hear that. Like you, I need all the motivation I can get.

I'm intrigued too...but doggone it, the guy is in Amsterdam!

I can't tell you how much it helps me to know that others are having difficulties with this too.

In my class, there are two folks from Iraq who have been in Holland less than a year and they are just buzzing right along with it all. Especially one guy, who is really working very, very hard. There are a couple of women in this class too, one from Ukraine and the other from Indonesia who are both doing way better than I am.

I'm blaming it on being an American who has spent her whole life speaking only one language. These folks are all multi-lingual since birth.

Anyway...the link is interesting and perhaps when I am not so busied out with this class, I'll pursue some private lessons.

Incidentally...you folks sound like you have waaaaay more information about all this than I do. What I have been told is that effective December 2008 when I spoke with them last if I take the Statsexamen 1 course and pass the test(s) I will have satisfied Holland on the inburgering thing for all eternity. Is that true?

Many thanks to all of you....

That has a lot to do with it...they burst through that 2nd language wall years ago...after that, 3rd and 4th languages are so much easier to pick up on.

And your classmates have the advantage (or disadvantage depending on your point of view) of having an accent that doesn't make Dutch people switch into English as soon as they hear them speak broken Dutch. So we're in this catch-22 situation: we need to practise real-life situations to become more fluent...but can't practise real-life situtations until we're more fluent because our North American accents make the Dutch switch to English!

As a result, I've developed a mumble when I speak Dutch to hide my twang, which doesn't help my fluency level either...

Now it's my turn to go to the Nazi talk (het inburgeringsonderzoek). What should or should not say during it?

Jog my memory, wondering...What is your inbuggering experience so far?

If you have a Dutchie, bring him...mine always comes with me at times like this and argues in Dutch with the gemeente worker because they are usually wrong about something.

Some of the cheap ROC inbuggering programs are excellent...Alphen a/d Rijn for example. I wouldn't recommend Haarlem's. If you do have to attend Dutch lessons and be tested, don't commit to their class on the spot...do some research first.

In fact, I'd like to hear how your discussion went...I'm sure some of us can advise you whether you were fed bollocks or not.

And don't be surprised if a Turkish or Morrocan interpreter sits in on the appointment. After all, all immigrants are either one or the other, aren't they?

I saw myself being push in a train, the sliding door closed, I was in total darkness, then.........when I woke up I was in a camp...........No kidding, I had such dreams these few nights.

My Dutchie even doesn't know what is this all about. I have to rely on myself. Wish me luck!

Yeah but have you gone through inbuggering already? Do you have a certificate? Have you done any tests? Or are you just starting the process?

My case is actually quite similar to yours, CW. I don't want to join the useless course, even I don't need to pay. I rather join the "society" not the course. But with Dutch's IQ, they will never understand what's the difference between it. Just read the news about the shooting in the US in the school where immigrates go for the language course. Of course I don't agree with what the guy did, but somehow I do understand how he felt.

You've done it already then and passed (or was a flunkout like me? )

You can take whatever course you want...and I would. And take whatever test the IND website says is good enough for a passport...I think they have a quota to fill to justify continuing the courses (and getting a subsidy I'm guessing, based on estimated number of students).

But unless someone can vouch for the quality of your ROC's program, I wouldn't sign up...