This post refers to another in this forum called "US/NL dual Nationality", the writer of which only wants practical, specific advice in getting the Dutch nationality.
My problem is the opposite: I'm realizing too that it's not all perfectly simple on the American side of the dual-nationality equation.

I have dual Dutch/American citizenship. I am American born and I aquired my Dutch citizenship by marriage. Acquiring Dutch citizenship seemed innocent enough to me at the time. I have researched the State Department site, and it seems that I am allowed this. I certainly would not want to give up my US nationality, and I have a Dutch passport largely out of practicality. I know the US govt. does not encourage dual nationalities, but it I was confident that I was working within the bounds of the --rather unspecific-- law.

The text at the State Department reads:

"A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship."

There are two things that scare me a bit. 1. To get my Dutch passport I did have to apply for it. I see now that on the State Department website it implies that if you get a passport automatically it is fine, but not if you "apply" for one. Or am I reading too much into it? I certainly did not do it with plans to forfeit my US nationality. Am I still within the bounds of the law? Will I get harassed by some over-eager, over-patriotic border authority?

2. Secondly, I am in a same sex marriage. I know the US federal government does not recognize same sex unions of any type, but I wonder if the US will extend that denial to the conditions under which I acquired my Dutch nationality. In other words, in the eyes of the US government, did I acquire my passport without having gotten married? Would an American immigration official see my dual nationality as a clear breach of the rules under which it is generally allowed?

I'm interested in other peoples' take on this.

Mr. B--

I have dual citizenship (US and an EU country). I think you are getting way to worried about this! The US government almost never revokes US citizenship over dual nationality. Why? They never want to lose a taxpayer!!!!

The text you quoted refers (I think) to people who take citizenship in a country the requires the new citizen to give up their previous citizenship. I think this may be the case for applicants in Germany.

As for you aquisition of Dutch citizenship via same sex marriage, the US has zero jurisdication over how the Netherlands hands out passports. Also, there is no reason the US should even find out you are a Dutch citizen. When entering the US use your US passport and when entering the EU, use the Dutch one.

I am not an attorney did check this out before acquiring my dual nationality. You may want to check with the US Consulate too.

There are 10s of 1000s of Americans with dual nationality. Even when it was 'illegal' the US State Department almost never made an issue of it.

Ignorance is bliss.

I would not worry about it. And I would not raise a red flag at the consulate.

US law requires that US citizens use their US passport when traveling to/from the states. The immigration folks should not even see your Dutch Passport,

I'm sure I am making a big deal out of it . I travel all the time with my US passport without problem. I'm actually not all that worried, but I would like to know what the bottom line is. I have run into situations at the border (mostly the Canadian/US border) where you are taken aside and asked endless, compromising questions. In such a situation, it's nice to know what's going through the head of one of these people, and to have the right answer. You know how ugly they can get if you story doesn't fit their ideal scenario.

This actually all came up because some lawyers at a company which is vetting me in the US had raised some red flags. I guess they saw my dual citizenship as a liability. So, you can imagine I really started doubting my former assumptions.

I dont understand what red flags they are seeing so you will have to be explicit.

B.

I think you have probably said as much as you should say on a public messageboard. If you really want to get a definitive answer, I suggest you make an appointment with an immigration attorney who is a member of AILA (http://www.aila.org/). Make sure to call around to find one who specializes in the direction you are going (origianally US Cit, adding a second one) since they mostly work with immigrats coming into the US.

Good luck.

What are you people talking about? I've come and gone across US borders for years, and never had any problems. Officials can ask themselves as many questions as they want, but as a US citizen they have to let you in.

I don't think that the US should recognize same sex 'marriages', but if the Dutch want to and want to give you a passport because of it, well that's their business. (Some of us can't have this because we never shacked up with a local.)

Seriously, there's plenty of more important things for the State Department to worry about than your case, I'd imagine.

Please don't listen to people like this! You are right to be careful with all immigration matters, especially post 9-11. ICE does not have to let you in the US, you can be put into protective custody if they think you have renounced your cititzenship.

OF course I am not saying you have done such a thing. But you are right to be careful.

Blarfy stop making stuff up

Who's making what up up? ICE have no jurisdiction in giving up your citizenship, it's all State Dept. Seriously, you guys are convincing yourselves of stuff that doesn't exist. But hey, if you want to overblow your own importance and become hysterical, feel free to do so.

I think we would have no problems now with dual nationality. But what would happen when you got to retirement age and collected social security benefit? Or if some war broke out in Holland or in Europe, everybody flee to U.S., then I think that U.S. government would check out the status of nationality. The purpose of having dual nationality, I think, is exactly for these kind of emergency, otherwise, why we need keeping U.S. citizenship.

You can already apply to have your social security totalled by one country and paid from there. There is no forseeable wars in Europe, unless you count the Balkans but to me that's not Europe. With a European passport, it's simply much easier to live in various European countries. For all the blather, Euroepan governments seem to be unable to get a comprehensive programme together. For me, that's the beginning and end of it.

My allegiance will always be to the US, and no second passport would changes that.

What about the issue of an American wanting to become a citizen of the NL without being married to a Dutch citizen? I've read on the IND website that you have to renounce your citizenship in order to become a Dutch national.

I would like to live here indefinitely and embrace the country as a national, but I would never want to lose my American citizenship.

Any input on this?

I agree with mkitchell about his statement that the U.S. never wants to lose a taxpayer! I've had to file my U.S. tax forms for 30+ years, luckily without need to make any payments. It seems the U.S. is the only country in the world that forces its (permanent) expats to file tax forms. As I understood the law, the only way you can lose your U.S. citizenship is if you commit a foul crime, or if you expressively ask to give up your citizenship.

What are talking about. If you live in Holland you have to pay for your worldwide income, even if you earn it outside of Holland. I think that is worse than filing taxes for which it isn't absolute you will need to make any payment on it.

yes, I understand that the US won't force me to give up my citizenship, but it is my understanding that the NL will require me to give it up should I apply for citizenship here.

I'm just wondering if there are any ways around this, or if it's pretty much cut and dry.

If you are a US citizen, being married to or having a registered partnership with a Dutch citizen (NOTE! NOT just being the unmarried partner of a Dutch citizen) at the moment you apply for naturalization and the moment you get naturalized is pretty much the only way you can be exempted from the requirement of giving up your US citizenship, seeing as how the Netherlands knows for a fact that it is possible for you to give up your US citizenship (if you come from a country that does not allow you to give up its citizenship, on the other hand, like Morocco or Argentina, then the Netherlands can't make you give it up under any circumstances).

And as a general answer to this thread: ever since the Supreme Court rulings Afroyim v. Rusk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk) and especially Vance v. Terrazas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_v._Terrazas), it is pretty much allowed to take on other citizenships in addition to your US citizenship, as long as you did not do so with the intention of renouncing your US citizenship and you always enter the US with your US passport (I can't see why you would want to be photographed and fingerprinted on entry anyway...)

Jeremy Bierbach, LLM
immigrate.nl

I tried it and it's next to impossible...I attempted to argue "special circumstances" (which they say will give exception, but are a bit vague and have to do with extreme financial loss if you give up your nationality).....they shot down all my arguments and basically had the attitude of "if you want to be Dutch, you have to accept all the downsides with relation to the US".....

It's sad because I would feel more "integrated" and a part of things here if I was a national, but I won't give up my US nationality even though I doubt I will move back - mainly because I have parents and am the only child, so at some point, may need to be available to help them without loads of red tape.

Unless they change the laws at some point, we're stuck with permanent residence unless we marry a Dutchie. Shame we can't vote in national elections.

Many people go through the renunciation to get another citizenship and then reclaim it after they got it. You have to ask the US if you can do that or find other people who did it and see how they did so. It is very difficult for a country to determine if you have another citizenship unless you tell them. Also if giving up you passport to them before the ceremony is all you have to do, then all you have to do is get another one after the ceremony.

Unbelievable that losing money is considered a more legitimate reason than family considerations.

Its all about money in holland.
If you can justify an argument with money even if it is not the issue for you, it will convince them

I had a passport and it ran out space for entry stamps. You are allowed to get additional pages inserted when this happens. I went to get my tax id number and provided my passport for ID. They looked it up and down, passed it around for 30 minutes. I finally started to yell across the room to get the person's attention and ask what is wrong. And she told me they were checking it for fraud. I said why? and she said due to the additional pages. And I said, so why is that suspicious. And she said you should get a new passport, not more pages which is ridiculous. She is not the state department, it is my gov't's call as to how to handle which is want I wanted to say to her. Instead I said, if I get a new passport, I have to pay for it. Inserting pages is free. All of a sudden, it made sense and she gave me back my passport and provided my tax ID.