So this is my first thread on this site.. am not actually new to belgium, i come here with my hubby and kids every six months for his break from work (yes he is begian) until this time we are relocating and i decided i wanted to stay here during teh transistion period during which he finds us a house.

I have lived all my life in the middle east and driving here was a complete shock. None the less I think I might have been flashed by the speed cameras but unlike the middle east its not as easy as looking it on the web (yes that happens). So can anyone give me an inside of really how much more are u allowed to go.. ?? and other than waiting for the mail is there a way of finding out traffic fines???

Belgian drivers are truly awful. I've seen behaviour here which would get people chasing you down and shooting you (with good reason) in the US. Try looking up maps on ViaMichelin.com, they often have the stationary cameras indicated...

Many Belgian drivers may drive inconsiderately, but 'truly awful' is - IM(NSH)O stretching it a bit.

I've just returned from a sojourn in Mississippi, where almost every day I was regaled with reports in the local press of (usually) single vehicle accidents where 'the vehicle left the road.'

Well, yes! the roads in Mississippi are so boring that the vehicles just get fed up with going along them and they leave the road - presumably to explore the woods.

My son (who has a motorcycle licence, but had never driven a car before) came to stay with me for Easter. He wanted a driving licence, so he spent 3 * 20 minute sessions driving his mum's car, 2*20 minute sessions in my truck then took the test.

The test lasted 4 minutes. He's a very considerate and responsible person and he apologised to the tester for exceeding the speed limit during the test. "That's OK," said she "You didn't go more than 10mph above. - You've passed."

American drivers do tend to be at a disadvantage. - Most of them are 'handy-capped' (they drive around with a 'handy' screwed into one ear, a burger in one hand and a cup of coffee (or a beer) in the other.) -

No wonder the cars get bored and 'leave the road'

There are a couple of easy-to-remember rules which will make driving simple in Belgium:

1. Beware the man in the hat. If you see a car driven by a gentleman wearing a hat, get out of his way. He probably doesn't even realise you're on the road and if he does, it's his right-of-way [because he was driving on that road before you were born and he has 'droit de Seigneur'] (unless you're in Flanders, in which case, he owns the road.)

2. Give way to any vehicle which is older than yours which is stationary at a road junction on your right. Some people drive older vehicles, but they too would like to drive the latest machinery. One way of obtaining a new car (at a very reasonable price) is to 'induce' you to pay for it. If you hit a vehicle coming from a junction on your right, you pay. He gets a new car. (even if he has to accelerate flat out to get in front of you, you pay.)

3. If a suntanned gentleman in Brussels asks you for a lift and suggests that he would prefer to be alone in the vehicle, give him the keys and invite him to use it. (If you have a knife or a gun you may feel inclined to practice your linguistic skills - but he too probably has a knife or a gun and those skills will only serve you well if you're a better shot/faster slasher than he is.)

Don't try to outrun a Belgian police car - and whatever you do, don't upset Belgian plainclothes (unmarked) motorcycle cops. (They ride dark grey BMW R1100RTs or Gold K1200LTs)

ROFL

I would like to add roundabouts to Manuel's points:

5. In Brussels when people miss an exit on a roundabout they think they have 2 options, make another round and waste expensive fuel, or break, reverse and then exit the roundabout. This ofcourse without looking in the rear view mirror.

This reverse thing can be applied on one way roads too.

6. If you're an EU official, buy a cheap car and put a EU license plate on it. Car mechanics couldn't demolish it any quicker than Brusseloix can.

All expats know by instinct that only the drivers in their homeland are reasonable to good road users. Expats in Belgium know for a fct that Belgian drivers are the worst in the world! Expats in The Netherlands know for a fact that Dutch drivers are by far the worst in the world. Expats in France know for sure that French drivers are madmen, etc. etc. ad nauseam!
IMHO there are good and bad drivers in all countries, even if these persons don't have a licence or, shock horror, don't even have an insurance!

LOL! I certainly woudn't say that the drivers where I come from are good drivers ... with only about 15km of roads and a maximum speed limit of 30mph they don't get a lot of practice.

Interesting that you should mention insurance. If nobody in a country had any 'accidents' (and they're rarely pure accidents - in most cases they're caused by inattention, poor observation, carelessness, recklessness or downright incompetence) then insurance premiums would be extremely low. - If there were no accidents, then there would be no claims and the insurance premiums would have to cover the administrative costs of the policies only.

The more claims there are, and the greater the value of those claims, then the higher the premiums.

How do insurance premiums in Belgium compare to those in other EU countries?

What is the annual accident rate per 1000 vehicles per 1000 km in Belgium?

How does the Belgian accident rate compare with that of other EU countries?

I don't have the foggiest idea...

I would like to add a few points, having driven over here for many years...

1) Apart from Portugal, Belgium has the highest accident rate per 100K people in Western Europe and the death rate is nearly three time that of the UK, which is the safest.

2) Driving test only became mandatory here about 30+ years ago and it shows.

3) The Belgians, especially in Brussels have absolutely no concept of lane discipline. If you come to a cross roads and there are three lanes of cars, do not expect the logical outcome: those in any lane could and probably will go in any direction.

4) The main art of good driving is anticipation, which is unheard of over here.

5) Pedestrians are even worse. They will walk across the road without looking; the number of times I've nearly killed some moron is in the hundreds. Also, if you are revesing, they will walk behind you, checking carefully first to ensure that you can't see them.

6) I have had one serious accident where I was stopped at a set of traffic lights by NATO and hit in the back by a drunk going quite fast. Fortunately, I was driving a Saab, which may well have saved me from serious injury. Eventually the police and pompiers turned up and took him to hospital. The police never breathalysed hime because he jumped out of a hospital window and ran away.

7) A very large percentage of immigrant drivers in Brussels have never taken a test in this country.

8) Enjoy

I have some comments on your post:
1) There has been a DRAMATIC reduction in car accidents in 2008 (almost 50%). Please consult the statistics.
2) Driving test became mandatory in Belgium in 1969/1970, which is almost 40 years ago. This means that the very large majority of Belgian drivers have passed the test for their licence!
3) I agree that "Lane Discipline" is far from perfect. However, at least two conditions need to be fullfilled in order to make it possible. Firstly, the lanes have to be painted clearly with large white arrows pointing in the right direction ( left, straigt on, right) allowing the driver to choose his lane (and, of course, all this with clear signposting!). Secondly, the driver has to know more or less IN WHICH DIRECTION he/she has to drive (see above). Not only in Brussels, the signposting is not always logical and the maintenance of the arrow painting can be very bad...
4) I agree as well that anticipation is of utmost importance. Some of us will have good experiences and others will have bad experiences...
5) It is an excellent advice suggesting to look out for pedestrians! After all, as a driver you are deadlier than they are! However, personally I do not have your experience of pedestrians crossing streets as wild game! On the contrary, most look like shitting their pants while crossing, even on a zebra!
6) your comment about your accident is totally irrelevant as it could have happened in any country with the same result. Only the booze in the drunk would have been different!
7) Your comment is rather akward. Some Driver's Licenses issued by foreign countries can be exchanged for a Belgian Driver License. All these countries have a serious drivers test. Then there is no problem whatsoever.
If a foreigner has a Driver's License which is not "recognised" by the Belgian authorities (lack of quality), the immigrant will have to pass the Belgian test before he will be allowed to drive in Belgium. So, imho you probably exaggerate the number of immigrants who drive through Brussels without having the right papers.
Btw, how should we know how many of them there are since they are "illegal"?

Honestly, Belgium probably has the worst drivers that I've ever seen.

As for the drunk, sure, it can happen in some countries, but he'd usually have been arrested and not allowed to jump out a hospital window.

A friend was involved in a wreck where one woman totalled her car and then didn't want to call the cops. She then signed some documents with a fake name and ran off. When the cops bothered to show up, they said "Well, she signed some documents." (Imagine your car has been stolen, then you have to prove that you didn't wreck it.)

It's happened to me at least twice that some twit pulled in front of me and slammed on his brakes to make some kind of arrogant point. (Of course the same people would never act this way this outside of their cars as they are too chicken to do so.)

Worse, though, the govermnent refuses to take any measures to deliniating lanes, putting in stop signs, traffic lights or trying to enforce traffic laws by actually taking away licenses from those who should never have got them in the first place.

I've found that by assuming everyone else on the road here is either insane, totally incompetent or drunk that it explains most of their behavior.

I've driven in a lot of countries.

IMO, Belgian drivers aren't very good (but then again, IMO there are few drivers in any country who've merely done the basic driving test who are anywhere near 'competent'.)

Driving instruction - although it should be 'harmonised' does vary markedly from country to country. There are one or two EU countries (no names, no pack drill) where the standards of driver training and driving are abysmal!

Should you live in a country where driver training standards are good and where drivers are a little better than the EU average, don't be lulled into a false sense of security. Anybody with a valid EU licence can drive anywhere in the EU - and they do, too!

A previous poster talked about 'lane discipline'. LOL! There is one place where I declined to drive. Sicily. (I've nothing against Sicilians; they are quire amazing drivers) - and I did learn a few of the 'local' rules:

1. The number of lanes marked on the road is a suggestion. If there are 3 lanes, but you could get 5 vehicles abreast, do so.

2. Right of precedence (really important rule) When vehicles are stationary at traffic lights (or any other impediment to free flow) the vehicle (on either side) which has its front wheel nearer the holdup than any other vehicle has absolute right of way... So when you are approaching a red light, go like hell, scare the hell out of the opposition and get Pole position.

3. The footpath is for Fiat 500s (the pedestrians will get out ofthe way) - Beware joining traffic (small cars) from the footpath.

I refused to drive in Sicily; I 'allowed' my navigator (who was as blind as a bat) to drive. - he couldn't see, so he didn't get scared.

Driving standards in Belgium could be better - and the insurance premiums do tend to reflect that (mine dropped by over 1000 Euros when we moved to Germany.)

There are advantages, however. I was in Paris (a city not exactly noted for gentlemanly driving) a few years ago. I was, however, in a Belgian registered car. I just pointed the car and put my foot on the pedal ... for some strange reason, the Parisians were remarkably willing to cede to me 'right of way'.

Funny old thing.

Serious advice - for foreigners and for people who simply wantto stay alive: If you can find a company (or a charitable organisation - there are many in the UK) which offers advanced driver training, do the course.

I've done loads of courses (if anybody offers me a driving course, I'll take the offer) and although some of them are a 'pain in the butt' I learn a it from every course.

Some of the courses I've taken have reduced m insurance premiums (by up to 20%). They all increase my chance of survival.

Just some small additions:

1) The accident rate has gone down according to the statistics but one aspect of those statistics is that death in a vehicle accident is no longer counted if the person did not die at the scene. A very belgian solution.

2) Every other country takes drunken drivers seriously.

3) When you're driving along the road and a pedestrian, walking along the pavement in the same direction, turns suddenly left and walks straight in front of you, please don't tell me it's my fault. Idem for people who walk out without looking when their light is red.

When my doctor, back from a vacation in Sicily, told me in astonishment that he was honked at when stopping at a red traffic light, as an Italian I told him do to precisely as you - not to drive. However, Sicily is not one of the worst places in Italy - for instance driving in Naples shoud absolutely be avoided. There is a book in English called "An Italian in Italy" that inter alia attemps to explain the philosophy of the Italian approach not to stop at a red traffic light and generally not to respect the traffic regulations. Although I found the book rather patronizing and still cannot understand people honking at me when I stop my car at a pedestrian cross (which happens almost everywhere in Italy), it could be useful reading. That said, Belgium is an Italian driver's dream:
- No penalty point system for the driving licence;
- No computerised section speed control on motorways;
- Lower fines;
- If one doesn't pay a speeding ticket a policeman comes home and politely asks to pay - in Italy they directly put a garnishment order on your car or bank account!
- Driving licences are for life - no need for renewals and periodical medical examinations.
All in all, I am very happy with my Belgian driving licence. There are drawbacks: the different approach taken by the three regions on radars can be misleading; certain traffic offences in Belgium may become criminal offences (although generally not prosecuted); and the very aggressive and individualistic way of driving in Brussels is not matched with the technical expertise to avoid the consequences of that (the only point where I find Italian drivers superior).