Hiya

I'm moving to the Netherlands, and more specific, Utrecht the 1st of May.
I'm currently residing in Denmark, and my general impression is that it is cheaper to live in the Netherlands than here--but I was wondering if anyone here give me something more tangible.

As far as I've figured, my net salary will be about 1550€ a month (2100€ gross). But I've been told that the worst case scenario is 1400€ a month. I haven't completely figured out how they calculate the taxes yet, and I'll have to wait till I get my tax number before I know for sure.

I'm moving in with a friend in Utrecht, and we would like to live close to the Centraal Station, as we both need to travel from there to work each day.
We have been looking at apartments and houses to rent, and you can find some really nice ones for about 1250€ a month plus bills.
Now, I don't have a clue what the cost of bills are; of course it'll depend on how much you use, but can any of you give me something to after?
Calculating with a maximum of 750€ (my share), that will give me between 650-800€ for everything else, including the 100€ for the basic health insurance.

So the question is: is it possible to live somewhat comfortably in Utrecht with roughly 750€ to all expenses excluding housing?
And would there be money left to travel home once in a while?

Any help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
Johs

First off..I don't live in the NL yet, but my g/f has for about a year...anyways I can give you some generalizations but can't go into details since I don't have the first hand experience.

I'm always reading people on here say outrageous comments like "you're only taking in 3000 euros a month?!?! good luck surviving". I don't know what they're doing wrong, my g/f takes in about 1400-1500 after taxes and lives just fine and says its more than enough. Looking into the average salary in NL...she seems to be making just that. If you're looking to live in an extremely nice large place like what you may live in the USA..yeah you'll be paying a lot. But if you're looking for a 'normal' dutch place, you'll be fine. She can afford a decent room, buy food, travel, save up a good portion of her money, etc. When I do move there she'll even be able to support me without a problem if it comes to that (which hopefully won't happen of course). You should be able to find some rooms for a decent price, or if you do want a place yourself, you should be able to afford that as well.

totally agree with this post, I earn 1300 a month after tax and i usually manage to save a 100euros a week even with going out at the weekends and buying some clothes and dvd's - and I live in Amsterdam.

Yeah, I've heard the whole thing about Amsterdam being outrageously expensive (which I'm sure it is to a degree)..but my g/f and I were looking online one day and found plenty of good deals on apartments in great locations. Take your time and do some research online and I'm sure you can find a great deal.

I think you can find something in Utrecht for that price more or less.

See www.funda.nl, click on the orange section, click on huur (rentals) , enter Utrecht as the city and take defaults, then click 'zoeken'.

100 sq meters is about 1000 sq feet - so yes, things are tiny.

Do allow money for fixing up the place, lighting fixtures, curtain etc... as housing is nothing like the States.

First off, I'm not from the US. I live in Denmark

I'm happy to see the positive response, it sounds like it really *is* cheaper to live in the Netherlands.
The most expensive apartments we've been looking at have been around 1100-1250€ excluding bills, so I set the 750€ mark to have a maximum that included bills.
So that would leave me with roughly 750€ for all other expenses each month, and it sounds like it really shouldn't be a problem.
But it's kind of hard to tell when you don't have a frame of reference

Of course, it's a huge gain that we're two to share the cost of groceries and everything else related.

As long as I can go out and enjoy a beer once in a while with friends, without thinking about the cost, I'm happy.

I know you're from Denmark, but I used the US example because 1) I'm from there and 2) we seem to be known for a big houses

The salary you mention is the same that my husband was on when we moved here. He used to take home 1440 per month.
Prices of bills definately depends on if you are living in a house or apartment and how large the house is e.c.t.
We moved 5.5 years ago and were shocked that our gas was 199.00 per month and so was our electricity! thats without our other bills or council rates/tax, water. We ended up with about 20 euros a month to live on and it was a nightmare. But, this was based on the amount of gas the previous owner used to pay I think? as we had purchased our house.

Since then our bills have slowly gone down each year and we recently got money given back from the gas.
I know other people who are living in apartments who don't pay anything near to what I pay, but I also know that others in houses near to where I live are paying the same, if not more than I am.

Water is pretty reasonable, we pay 19.50 per month and I have a very large garden and grow veggies in the summer so I use quite a bit of water, but the water prices aren't bad at all.

Those prices sound insane!
I can hardly imagine gas, water and light go above 250€ a month in a 100m2 apartment?
I just asked a friend this evening, and she told me she's paying 150€ a month for electricity and gas, and I think her apartment is roughly 90m2.
There will of course always be a difference between warming up a house and an apartment, since apartments tend to be surrounded by other apartments
At 19.50€ a month water doesn't sound to be something to worry about at all!

I spend about 100 euro a month on water, but I do have a tub.
Overall, food is a bit cheaper than Denmark.

Glad to hear that a normal live is still possible, after hearing everybody back home whinge on how expensive everything has gotten, and how live is damn near impossible on 1,500 euros

good news in case I'm heading back one of these days

Thats expensive, you should check that out because I also have a 2 person tub which we use every day and very large garden and grow veggies in trhe summer, so of course on hot days I have to water them. That sounds quite expensive to me, I'm sure that can't be right?

Quote: Those prices sound insane!
I can hardly imagine gas, water and light go above 250€ a month in a 100m2 apartment?
I just asked a friend this evening, and she told me she's paying 150€ a month for electricity and gas, and I think her apartment is roughly 90m2.
There will of course always be a difference between warming up a house and an apartment, since apartments tend to be surrounded by other apartments
At 19.50€ a month water doesn't sound to be something to worry about at all!

***************************************

Yeah, the gas and electric came as a bit of a shock to be honest, it's slowly got lower each year and now we pay about 100 for electric and 160 I think for gas, but it took nearly 6 years to get to paying less.
I know people in living apartments paying much less like the 150 euros like you mention. I just phoned my husband on his way to work and he said that our lounge is 104 sqm so I guess that explains it LOL
I didn't want you to get stuck like we were as it certainly came as a shock and those bills ate up all of our spare money.

Then again in my old house in the UK which was a similar size it used to cost me 72 pounds per month for gas electric and water... but I think prices have even gone up there.

I think those numbers are high.

I pay 44 every quarter ... um maybe twice a year .. something like that .... for my water bill and I take a bath every day.

I pay 119 for Eneco (gas and elec .. ) have been since I moved here over 3 years ago and my apartment is 135 sq. meters.

Usage?

I never turn my heat off .. unless I will be out of town. Otherwise, I am always coming home to a cold house and by the time it heats up ... it's time to go to bed ... and then I don't want it so warm.

So .. I figured out that if I turn off my heat during the day because I'm at work ... I basically end up with no heat all winter except for the rare days that I spend the whole day .. in the house.

I agree. Isn't there a ( hidden?) leakage somewhere. Even a very small leakage (typical example: a dripping toilet or tap) can cost you hundreds of Euri a year!

Me too. I agree. Far better to turn it lower but not off.

We could leave our taps dripping all the time, we still wouldn't pay any more as we don't have a meter.

I always thought that if you turn the heating right down, then the energy used to get the place warm again when you turn the heating back up is more expensive than if you simply left it on a reasonable heat?

That's what I thought too...

I find this a fascinating and timely topic, I know that it's probaly fairly boring to discuss the cost of living endlessly for most people but it all changes when you've got a vested interest in it! It's always struck me that wages in NL don't reflect the high cost of living and that the taxation is so high and things like compulsory private health cover etc all contribute to a relatively low disposable income for many people. What if you've got a family of four trying to survive on a take home wage of 1400 euros!

I had a guy look at it but he told me that all was fine, I'm not sure if that is true but I'm pondering moving now, 1200 a year on water alone seems like so much money compared to what ya'll are paying

I'm notoriously bad at calculating but your wage of 1400 euri per month would not be your total income: you not only forget your "vakantiegeld" (8% as far as I know) and eventual other bonuses (like a 13th/14th month), but your monthly "zorgtoeslag" and "huurtoeslag" (if you rent a house) and quarterly "kinderbijslag" (the amount of which depends on the age of the children). All together, that's a lot of money!
Btw, it is perfectly possible to "survive" on welfare in The Netherlands, which is roughly 1200 euri for a family. So your 1400 at least go a longer way...maar het is natuurlijk geen vetpot!

My hubby used to take home 1440 and our mortgage and bills were 1420 per month. The company never paid the vakatie geld, although we did have a company car. But due to having the company car we got nothing back each month from the mortgage, tax.
I think I used to get about 300? per month child benefit, which would leave us 320 per month if we were lucky. But if I deduct the monthly school bus pass and other things we had to pay for school which added up as the bus pass alone was over 50 euros a month. Then of course you get unexpected yearly bills, like water bills yearly for the sewer and other things, we used to have about 20 euros at tops a week to live on. Personally, I don't think thats reasonable. I'm glad we are not living like that any more.

That really is definately not right. Not only do I water all my veggies and bath every day we also have one of those very big pools that we fill up in summer. I'm home most of the time cooking and cleaning e.c.t (which means more water and even bath my dog once a week too.
I suggest you ask the waterboard about this bill again, because I'm sure your being ripped off or you have a very leaky pipe somewhere. My monthly bill I paid yesterday and it is 19.07 per month.

We had a similar thing with the gas who insisted we used 200 euros worth of gas each month. I gave up arguing with them in the end. We just got over 1000 euros back as they realised finally that they had been overcharging us. Not only are you paying a ridiculous amount, but you should also get some of your money back.

I'm with Nuon for gas and electricity, just because it's on one bill and was recommended at the time... I'm beginning to doubt my choice now, they are charging me about €140 a month. Can anyone recommend any better/cheaper companies?

Thanks for your insight into the "cut-up" of the weekly wage Emilio! some of the subsidies granted to renters and mortgagees are unknown in Oz, the "huurtoeslag" for example, is that a kind of rental subsidy and if so how is it means-tested? The only people that get that here are people on welfare i.e. on unemployment benefits etc. Do people in jobs get that sort of thing?* "Zorgtoeslag" betekent wat? "Kinderbijslag" I think I understand but it's means tested and based on age and number of offspring. Does it get more as the child gets older or less?

*If your rent per maand is say EU 1000 then much of your pay packet is gone straight away!

Wow LJ that's bloody tight! Food and petrol are expensive in NL despite the imports from all over the EU and beyond, I really don't know how you managed! The insane way that energy bills are calculated in NL are also a never-ending soource of wonderment, I mean they still have to send some one around at some stage to take a reading (otherwise you'd never get a refund) so why not do it quarterly like the rest of the civilized world and get it right? Your child benefit was based on how many children if you don't mind me asking?

* HUURTOESLAG (old name was "huursubsidie"). This rental subsidy is given by the government to ALL renters with a monthly rent lower than 630€ (exclusive of energy) or around 340€ if one is younger than 23 years old. In many cases, this subsidy can be as high as 200€ per month! Of course, the yearly income of the beneficiary has to be low to get it: 20.600€ for singles and 27.950€ for a couple (respectively 18.525€ and 24.625€ for seniors). The "huurtoeslag" is calculated and paid by the Belastingdienst (IRS).
More than 1 million families or singles get Huurtoeslag in The Netherlands!
As this subsidy is meant for ALL, people who have a job receive it as well.
* ZORGTOESLAG is a subsidy for ALL people older than 18 years, living in The Netherlands and having a Dutch Medical Insurance. Their yearly income is not allowed to be higher than 29.069€ for singles and 47.520€ for couples. The subsidy can be as high as 46€ per month! It is calculated and paid by the Belastingdienst (IRS).
Since the "basic" medical insurance will cost more or less 100€ per month (some will pay less. some more), the "zorgtoeslag"is a substantial reduction!
* KINDERBIJSLAG is a subsidy for each child in a family. It is paid quarterly and the precise amount depends on the age of the child and the number of children in the family.
0 to 5 years = 190€
6 - 11 years = 231€
12 - 13 years = 272€
13 - 17 years = 272€
2 305€
3 317€
4 342€

Various Dutch energy companies install digital meters which they can read from their offices. So they dont need anymore to visit people to read the meters. In houses with older meters they ask you to fill in the data yourself and send the card back or send them online.

[quote name='Porkchop' date='Apr 21 2008, 01:13 AM' post='772333']
Your child benefit was based on how many children if you don't mind me asking?

****
I had one son here and he was 12 when he got here and 15 when he left. I am pretty sure they used to give me just over 300 euros per month child allowance? I'm pretty sure it was just over 300 for one child as I remember that for sure. Although, even that took them 8 months to work out...

Porkchop, one bonus we did have was that hubby got his petrol free with the company car and job. We couldn't have done it otherwise. Since then, some of our bills have gone up and if he was still in that job we would have lost the house for sure now. But ,phew, we managed it LOL

I don't think you can change companies.

I think you have to take the vendor for your area. In my area for example .. I have Eneco .. but I can't get Nuon.

This is my understanding anyway.

No Ouloveit1! You can change energy companies any time you want. You can even have different companies for gas, water and electricity if that's what you want.
However, if you take another company, your will receive TWO BILLS, one for the electricity by your chosen company and one by the socalled "netbeheerder" (= the company managing the grid) because you use their distribution system.

Me too.
When was the last time they read your meter ?
They are terrible for over-estimations you know!
I have only one bill every TWO months cos its so low - €92.
They now reckon I need a new meter cos it keeps going down.
I explained to them that I put a jumper on instead of the heating on and my mum brought me up to turn the bloody lights off when I left a room....and I have a few spaarlampen.
And I don't have a microwave,hair-dryer,clothes dryer,iron,mobile phone,PC at home,food processor,freezer,dvd,electric shaver or vibrator....which gives me more money for the better things in life - like belgian beer for example,

Mr Fook, shaving yourself with a machete in the dark while drinking a lukewarm Belgian beer must be quite an experience! Or do you use ONE candle for the whole house?

Oh yes it is - especially when I've had too many beers LOL!
I have a fridge but not a freezer.
And I put the beer out on the balcony.

Good work Mr Fook... although our vibrators all run on batteries anyway...

A NUON guy turned up on April 1st, slightly bemused that I would not let him in until he showed me some identification! I'm assuming they will then refund or adjust accordingly, or will they need a poke in the head to make something happen?

Emilio, do you know where there is a list of providers and rates etc? I'm prepared to overcome the lost convenience of a converged bill to save money.

Blimey, you must live in a caravan/tent.

Yes but you'd be wanting a rechargable battery if you you're feeling exceptionally erm....
but for some reason I thought you were a bloke....sorry.
I don't think there's a great deal of difference in prices and if you switch over -READ THE SMALL PRINT IN YOUR CONTRACT!

I have enough 'machines'...TV(which broke down not so long ago and I seriously considered not getting another one) CD player,washing machine.I even have a radio!
And I never have 'ready meals'...as I'm a decent cook too...you'd be surprised Wesley - I'm a man of many talents :o)

I am indeed. Further comment not appropriate in this thread!

Thanks, will do some digging in to the energy supplier options.

To the main topic, the single most important cost will be getting a good deal on your rent. If in Amsterdam this can be tricky...

Really? Guess I'll just have to believe you...

fatcontroller, did you try the Consumentenbond? Personally I have Oxxio for electricity and Eneco as "Grid Manager".

Sorry to respond so late to your post LJ but as I explained in another thread I couldn't get my posts on the forum yesterday for love or money! (kept getting an "error" message). I know I'm getting a little hung up over the finer details here but was it really EU 300 per month or per quarter? I'm assuming that if they took 8 months to work it out then you should have received a pretty hefty back-pay! Yes the benzine costs in NL and, I imagine in Europe as a whole, make owning a car a very expensive proposition, I can see us making use of the public transport system and bikes rather heavily.

Just as an aside, has anyone else been experiencing difficulties with certain aspects of posting? The one that is really eluding me for the moment is being notified about replies being made to topics I've posted in. I know you can tick the box when making a post that you want to be notified (undr post options) but I 've usually hit the 'add reply' button by the time I remember. I would rather this all happened automatically but I can't seem to get to that part of my profile to set the default, anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

PS this is why I don't seem to respond to recent posts....

so that's apparently your excuse why you didn't even acknowledge with one single word all the work I did for you on your request (read ALL previous posts please)...

At the top of each forum/thread on the right hand side is an options link, click on it and there you can subscribe to your choice.
Or if you go to your 'control panel' (you'll see it in my signature) then click on 'email settings' on the left hand side neat the bottom, then put a tick next to the box that says: Enable 'Email Notification' by default then choose a default type... then click on 'amend my email settings' and you're done.

If there's one thing in life I can't abide it's being judged unfairly for something outside my control Emilio. On Monday I attempted numerous times to respond directly to your post and had drafted a lengthy reply but the system constantly returned an error* message. Oddly it allowed me to respond to LJ's post but not yours. I've continued this week to try and make posts on various threads some of which have worked and some of which haven't, I've emailed admin to ask for help on this issue but zilch response.
Wesley's reply meant that I've cleared up the notification problem (thanks Wes), but as to why I've been able to post on some occassions and not others I'm no further enlightened. Emilio I appreciate all the effort you put in and I think you probaly need to give me the benefit of the doubt rather than responding so tersely!?!


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Porkchop, in my father's extended family of fishermen they all have veery simple, even simplistic thinking processes. I am a member of that family, of course. If I have a send button, I can push it and post! It always works. If there is no send button, I may think initially I can't send the message. However, I'm mistaken, I can send it using a trick or stratagem, i.e. pushing TAB and Enter. It works, always. Now, I give you the benefit of the doubt indeed, that you did not know the trick! However, if you could reach Laureljoana, you coukld reach me. It's as simple as that. But I forgive you anyway because I'm a good guy...

To be fair, at times this week I couldn't post either. I had no idea about pressing tab and enter either.

Actually, in my experience, the tab button didn't always work at all...