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That's a very interesting situation which I somewhat relate to. My experiences with Dutch friendships is that they are awkward and unnatural- as one expat told me, he feels like there are invisible hands on their shoulders holding them back from being their true selves! I can rarely relax and unwind with them the way I can with German, Danish, French, Italian, hell..almost any other nationality of friend I have (OK, maybe an exception with the Swiss ;-) )- they do lighten up a bit when drunk, but I like friendships that don't require alcohol-assistence ;-). Even with Dutch friends I like, there's just something not quite right - I've always put it down to Calvinism.

Basically, you should just stop making appointments with them (if you do) - if you're in social situations with them, excuse yourself and talk to other people. Just phase them out of your life. I think if you just slowly remove yourself from the situations, it's better than sitting them down and explaining "Sorry, I find your culture, rituals and behaviour too difficult to relate to so I am officially ending our friendship." If some of them are clingy types who keep pestering you, you may have to sit them down and explain, in which case you'll probably look a bit of an asshole.

On the other hand, maybe you are assuming these are friends and they are actually acquaintances. There are levels of friendship, and these people may not even consider you to be a real friend - you may just be hitting that brick wall that many of us have, where Dutch people don't allow too many real friends into their lives. In that case, you're experiencing what many here complain about - that they can't establish meaningful friendships with the locals. You just have to accept that - there's nothing wrong with having acquaintances and small talking - you'll just need to look for more meaningful friendships in other people most likely.

I found that most of the Dutches are more reserved even many claim that they are very straightforward. When we talk to our close friends, sometimes we do get into the nitty gritty but not in the case with the Dutches.

I do understand that being an expat we would really like to mix with the locals and be friended them. But then sometimes we just can't get along with them when come to culture and lifestyle. So why should we change to suit them - that will be more stressful. Just be yourself :-)

If you start a friendship at a mature age when everyone has respectable jobs and steady partners you will most likely have more problems becoming real friends. In Holland a common background is often essential to enter the circle of trust. Having done the same studies or went to the same school, lived in the same street, shared a flat, helped each in troubled situations(relationship break-ups, being broke, problems with family/law/police/school etc). Its just tougher to to become friends when you get older. Expats get along with each other so well because they have in a way the same 'background' and share the same enemy --> 'the locals' this is not just in Holland. But it is true that most Dutch people keep a strict diary which is annoying and not very spontaneous at all. In this case I wouldnt be too much bothered and just move on.

Actually I made some of my enduring friendships at work so we didn't have a history to keep us together. Obviously we made a history later on, but we both had jobs and relationships. A lot of my friends from school having moved to other parts of the country in the UK and a lot moved abroad, so to keep that close contact is impossible. A lot of people in Holland live and work in the same jobs and areas all their lives - which of course makes it easier to keep your circle of friends.

I've made some very good friends since moving here and didn't have any problems getting close and gaining the trust of some expats. Have now had the same expat friends for years and again now have a history with them.

If you don't open yourself up to new friendships and stay within the circle you made at school or college you aren't ever going to know if it's possible or not, which is why it's so very difficult to break nto the Dutch closed circles.

I find it very stifling and stagnant to live your life this way, but the Dutch don't seem to mind the boredom and seeing the same people at every social occasion.

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Its not only the Dutch who dont seem to mind the boredom, its 95% of all people out there who hardly travel, they look for jobs and partners within their own comfort zone. Expats like expats its as simple as that, they talk about the same stuff and have the same problems and challenges. They are far more adventurous and more likely to move on any time soon whenever a better opportunity arises. Further their is the language barrier, if you dont speak Dutch well or your friend has poor English then this can be experienced as a bit tiring for either one of you. On the other hand it wouldnt surprise me if you become friends with Dutch people if you would live both as expats in another country then Holland.

OK – let me put it another way.

When I lived and worked in London there were always new people joining the company I worked for and plenty of opportunity to socialise as there was always a group of about 4 or 5 people in the bar opposite. Some of these people didn’t travel or wanted to travel, but they were open to making other friends outside their old circle of friends from school or college. As I said earlier, a lot of my old friends have moved to other parts of the UK so unless you want to live life with just a few friends you see once or twice a year, you are forced to go out there and be a bit more open and friendly.

This is in direct contrast to the Dutch, who rightly or wrongly, don’t have a culture of popping over the pub for a couple of drinks before they go home, especially if they are single. They go straight home unless it’s an organised drink with their department that has been months in planning. There is no spontaneity and actually no wish to break out of their safe and secure circle of friends.

I know a lot of expats who have deliberately gone out of their way not to mix with other expats, which is fine. They have Dutch drinking friends who they meet up with for a drink and go for an occasional meal, but don’t really have or indeed want a deep relationship with them, because it suits them to keep it that way.

I went on a course when I was working in a company in London and made some great friends – Spanish, Iranian, Croatian etc. who I am still in contact with. Some of them didn’t speak very good English but we just liked each other and had a great laugh over a few bottles of wine in the evening.

I’m not saying the Dutch aren’t sociable, they are – to a certain extent and on their terms. They do a lot of organised events, such as playing tennis and cycling together, but even when they join these clubs they rarely make really good friends as they still have their old faithfuls from school, which I suspect stops them going that bit further in trying to cement a friendship.

I know a big group of Dutch friends who have hung around together for years, but they have split themselves into little departments, whereas some people always get invited to the others parties, and some only occasionally. This to me is very weird to leave one person out and invite another when you all hang around together normally. Socially it’s a minefield with the Dutch and one that most expats never understand, which is why they are forced to socialise with each other – and then you normally gravitate towards one or two who you really get on with.

Dutchies aren't like other people, there's something very odd about them.

Just what is it that makes them tick exactly? I've wrecked my brain for years trying to find this out, I really would like to know what goes on in a Dutch persons brain.
Can someone explain this?



Even where I work, it's full of them, not the nicest people around for sure and they can be very lazy/arrogant and get away with it, whereas the 'foreigners' are expected to work more.
It's one rule for the Dutch and another rule for the 'buitenlanders' !

Bloody hell, I hate this country & it's people at times.

Even the most normal interaction isn't played out where I work. For instance, on a Monday morning it was normal to ask each other how your weekend was and chat for a few minutes about it. Sometimes I hardly get a nod of the head from my colleagues and then hours of silence - I have tried to liven things up and talk about my weekend, but it's like pulling teeth and I tend to give up. Even coming back from holiday I get met with a blank stare and not the normal response, which is Hi how was your holiday?

I too have given up trying to figure out what makes them tick and have also concluded that the expats who say they find the Dutch socially normal are weird themselves which is why they feel at home here.

Still as long as you know all this it doesn't freak you out anymore and you just stop trying and concentrating on the stuff you do like to do.

It's the same where I work, it's not nice to get one-word answers from them.
Dutchies aren't exactly great communicators. Have you noticed how secretive they can be?

Mind you, it used to freak me out but there's no point anymore I just get on with my own interests now.

Well, well, well, I guess it would be useless whining about it when we are parasites (at least that's what they think about us) in thier land. When we have chosen to stay here then we should either live with it or change to suit the environment.

It has been thier culture that they are more homie and that's a fact that we can't change I'm afraid. And it's our choice to pick our own friends - if you think they don't fit to your peference then move on because debating about it doesn't help.

My point is - Just imagine if the Dutches migrated to our homeland, they might have the same thought like us that we are ignorant, snorbish, weird and etc. So what are you going to do about it? Telling them to leave the country?

I strongly believe that everyone is here for a reason and why do we want to make our life difficult when we don't live and married to them? I do admit that we do need friends but again they are not someone that we will spend the rest of of life with us- we have friends that come and go throughout our life. So appreciate what you have today

I can't say I've had that many bad experiences with dutch people...maybe I've just been lucky being able to get along with pretty much anyone.

Maybe I should start a new thread but my only bad experience was with a dutch girl I had a relationship with. She turned out to be possessive,insanely jealous,manipulative and would even translate to her parents whatever I said (which she considered inappropriate) to fit in with what she and they would find acceptable.
She also made a huge issue of going to visit her parents and coercing me into being 'safe' and respectable which I hated.
It was only later that I realised that she was a control freak/bully.

I'm just like you. I don't have any bad exprience yet (hopefully none throughout my stay here). I have been in NL many times before moving and I'm more or less know them a bit closer. We can't change one overnight. And we don't even want to change so why bother asking others to change for us?

So where is your homeland OmainNL?

Can I also ask how you know them 'closer'? Do you have Dutch in-laws? Living or married to a Dutch person for many years, lived and worked here again for many years?

Why do you say there is no point in talking about it? It's of great comfort to some people who think they are going slowly mad to realise this is the Dutch culture - and the only way to find out is to participate in discussion forums such as this.

If you think ignoring people at your workplace, only having friends from your school days, being inflexible and arrogant is something we all have to just put up with because we live here, then you are just as weird as the Dutch - and quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if you were Dutch, or at least have Dutch parents/grandparents.

Also anal-retentive, obsessive-compulsive personality disorder and Asperger Syndrome!!

Here we go, the Dutch mentality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive-com...nality_disorder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

It doesn't matter where I'm from but I'm just like everyone here - an expat in NL and my ancenstor isn't Dutch.

You don't have to be married to Dutch or having Dutch in-laws to know them closer. I'm sure you have Dutch neignbours at where you live, Dutch friends at work and etc. In every country we go, there's always this "culture" that we cannot break through. It's our choice to live with it or staying out of it and being in your shell and own comfort zone.

Ask yourself, will you want to live your life miserably trying hard to change and suit everyone's needs?

Even when we have a spouse or partner that comes from the same country and culture like us, we still struggling through learning to know her/him so it's not suprise that we are struggling to be in thier circle.

Actually I disagree. To really really know the Dutch culture you really have to be married into one or at least living together for a lot of years and have lots