Hallo All,

my respected seniors, friends and my dear juniors ..

I dont have any hesitatation saying IND Sucks, because i can prove you !!
I feel shy, annoyed with IND and would like to discuss in this Expatica forum .. those IND related persons, viewer, or my friends - general publics your comments are welcome & appreciates !!

I entered Netherland since 04 feb 2008. after waiting 3 months (almost ) i received Resident card with error on my Date of Birth. fortunately or unfortunately today my visa is expired. i dont have resident card nor i have any sticker for legal staying in the netherlands.

- when i asked i should have my RP its long time ? after a long period why still wrong- IND persons giving very irresponsible answer - Its procedure.. as if we dont know the procedure however its true.. ok agree..

But my questions is - when INDs are teaching procedure to us, then how come my resident permit can have error ? if you does your work with procedure, with plenty of time - 3 months - why still wrong..?

My details given to Gementee were right, filled up form were right, then where it goes wrong ???
where is the Procedure for yourself ??.. its really annoying...

I m here to study, gain n share knowledge..I paid 3 times more tution fees then locals... not being an illegal.

Biren, I understand that you feel confused and maybe even angry at the big mess IND is making of your RP. To many of us however, this does not come as a surprise! Not only is there a lot of bureaucracy in The Netherlands (there is in all countries!) but the procedures are mostly remarkably slow, as you now experience yourself. You are quite right that it sucks!
However, as an old Dutch proverb says, one cannot bend an iron rod with the hands. So I advise you to "cultivate" patience and calmness and to address official persons with a smile even when you're on the verge of exploding!
Btw, you gave the right details to the Gemeente. Was the registration correct? You can ask them an extract of their file. If it's okay at the Gemeente, the error must be at the IND.
Peace and Good Luck!

Agree with Emilio - the moment you raise your tone here, its like there's an auto-shutoff switch in their brains and they will be even less helpful or simply hang up.

Bureaucracy is bad in every country, but particularly bad here because everything (in all businesses) is so compartmentalized, that no one knows anything outside their tiny given task, so misinformation is rampant. The best way to deal with these people is often to play the victim role (poor little me). It's all very childish, but when you make them feel like they're somewhat important and you're powerless, they like that and seem more willing to help (my experience anyway). When you scream and call them a bunch of cheese-eating neanderthal pinheads, it doesn't really help ;-) (tried that one many times!)

I wouldn't stress too much about the RP - I believe that if you're in behandling (being processed), you are OK to be here - it took them 8-9 months before they got my permit correct when I first moved here. They're supposedly much better now than when I first came here (although back then IND didn't handle things). They kept putting a green sticker in my passport that I was being processed, so maybe you need to see if you can get one.

Be patient and follow up on things - you do have sympathy as most of us have dealt with this crap and know how frustrating it can be to get things done here.

Hallo Emilio,

Thanks for comments ! however i m not agree on your comments, suggesitons.. nor i m confused.. i know what i m saying... ( fact things you cannt digest thats true & i knew ) TOO MANY OF US !! for what ? if you need more people to do the task then hire it charge more (collect more money ).. if u cant handle it - reject it.. EASY N BEST POLICY !!

Dont give me IND reason - if i give you reasons will you make my RP when i want it ??
i know you cant, so where is the fairness to the people like me ??


Dont create the rules n regulation for people - leaving nowhere !!
(is that IND best policy !! )

"cultivate" patience and calmness and to address official persons with a smile - I KNOW however if i m not happy i cant make fake smile.. why should i respect when things are not respectable..

SIMPLE formula = Tit for Tat...

Furthermore, Gementee details were right and even IND letters were correct - Mistaken done by IND !
in my RP date of birth .

I m cool by nature however i can be volcanic when things are not right

thank you for the peace n good luck though always had bad lucks..

Cheers'

I'm not sure what you are wanting here?

Reassurance you wont be thrown out of the country while they fix the issue? That was answered.

Confirmation that only the IND make errors? You won't get that, to be human is to make errors.

The expectation that bureaucracy here will be the same as your own country? That's not going to happen.

Sympathy from fellow board users? Two people tried that, and you retaliated (using capitals = shouting), rather than replyling to those people who tried to reassure you.


You have every right to shout and scream, an expat board is a place for venting. However you were given some good advice and if you now ignore it, you do so at your peril. If you go to the IND ranting like that, all that will happen is you will be removed by their security OR the police, and you can wave goodbye to Holland forever, and probably minus your tuition fees.

There is a saying 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do'. Shouting at people will not make them want to help you - maybe in some places, but not in North Europe. If you are at University, maybe ask one of their 'International Student Welfare Assistants' for assistance as a Dutch speaking representative might sort this out more efficiently (no language barrier, no emotion involved) than you can.

Good rant but everyone is right, chill out and accept the inevitable time-wasting. Your 'challenges' are, or sound, quite typical of those encountered by foreigners.



But for the love of the interweb, please get your personal details out of your posts.

I agree...

Welcome to the Netherlands Biren!

Quote Biren: "I m cool by nature however i can be volcanic when things are not right "

Biren, the problem is that many Dutchmen have a very short fuse as well, just like you! If you erupt at the wrong time and at the wrong place, you might have a "brief encounter" with a lamp post and those are reputedly harder than your or my head...

btw, in all fairness, years ago the IND sometimes needed YEARS to process an application. Things are much faster now, really. I have even heard in some cases of people getting their RP in 6 WEEKS!

PS. It doesn't really help to shout at expats who have gone the same way as you and only try to comfort you a little bit.

Hoi Fatcontroller !

Just wondering why your name is fat controller,, perhaps taken lots of nederland cheese is it

thanks for warm welcome..

see you around... cheers doei doei..

Thanks for the little bit of comfort !!

however i will count everysingle time and money .. n collect from them in future hehe..

I guess you don't have to be a brain surgeon to work at IND, after waiting almost 6 months I finally get the letter that my rp is ready to be picked up, so I rake time off work to drive to Amsterdam only to discover that they screwed up the expiry date and it expired on the date I applied for it. wtf? Retards couldn't even figure it out.

Hi Biren,
It took 8 months before I got my paperz, so I am quite sympathetic.
Its better to vent here than on the dutchies.
They are a passionless people who don't understand how you can possibly be upset by anything, after all they ate Nederlanders, trots op nederlands, and they are perfect, it's obviously YOU that is in the wrong

So.. yeah we've all been there.
Where in NL are you?
We have the random social here to meet other expats and drink, and vent about our adopted country.
Many of us are here by as little choice as possible (love or work) and are doing our best to acclimate. The dutch attitude lately is very dis-inclined to have anyone else come here "we are a small country, go away!" is the VERY common attitude.

This is certainly not MY country of choice - I prefer sweeden , but my love, and (now) work is here, so I adjust.

Welcome to this soggy lil country, I hope things start going more your way.

-A patriot in exile.

Might want to keep in mind that us "Dutchies" are also reading these posts.

Vent as much as you like but keep the name calling out of it please. Obviously you have a lot to learn yet if you say the Dutch people are "passionless" or have no understanding or empathy for anyone.

Furthermore you say that you are not here by choice... mmmmm. The choice to change your situation and the power to do so is, if not in your hands, then whose? Who are you giving so much power?

Might be a wakeup call for you to take responsibility for the situation you are in now to have you realize that you ALWAYS have a choice.

A word of advice to those expats meetings you have. It does your situation no good if you get together and 'vent' on this 'soggy lil' country. All that does is make everyone involved focus on the negative aspects of their experience. (unless of course you really want to join us "Dutchies" who always find something to complain about )

Jump in sometime and recount some positive stories now and then, go ahead it won't hurt I promise. If you write back and say that there are no positive stories then I am really wondering why you are choosing to stay.


With kind regards,

A "Dutchie"

I have just been through the process of getting a registered partnership, and I have not a bad word to say about the Gemeente in Amsterdam or the IND, they have been really good with us. The permit was delivered in 4 weeks instead of 12, and every time i had questions, doubts or issues, i picked up the phone, called them saying i was sorry to ask a stupid question, and every time they have been spot on, and they all spoke great English too.

These are people too, if you're nice to them, they'll be cool with you, it works both ways, and everyone can make mistakes, it happens.

There are lots of positive stories, but 'Customer Service Fact 101' if you are happy you tell 2 people, if you are angry, you tell (on average) 15 people.

If you yourself lived in the UK, USA, South America, Asia, or anywhere; you would embrace a place, just like this board, where you can communicate in the language you were brought up with - DUTCH - maybe moreso for you as less than 20 million worldwide speak your mother tongue? And you would complain, along with other Dutch speakers, about the cost of living, the bureaucrats, the neighbours, and all other subjects that are strange or different to what is your normaal/your culture/your traditions. You would. Unless you have been an expat yourself, you won't understand how important it is to have a pressure valve like this, where you can let off steam among, not friends, but people who are in a similar situation to yourself, and understand where you are coming from. If you don't believe me, there are websites for Dutch expats living all over the world - tell me, have you thought to read these? are these only full of happy stories? Edit: I see you have been an expat for 20 years in the USA, yet you don't seem to grasp that not everyone adapts quite as well as you do, as we are all different.

I love living where I am living - nice house, nice neighbours, nobody wants to hear about my mundane routine here because it's boring to read (I'm a mother, not a celebrity). There are also a thousand other expats who are very happy here, and don't bother with Expatica, because they are so well adjusted or happy and just aren't interested mixing with others in an internet forum. But I'm just one of many, I count myself relatively lucky, and my experience is entirely situational and exclusive to me. And when things go wrong, or I don't know where to turn for advice, or I want a bit of a grumble, I know I can go to other expats... eg. here. It's a bit like your circle parties - tell me people don't moan, complain or gossip at those?

Keep reading Expatica if you enjoy it - and even though you can't totally empathise with the readers, you certainly can't be critical of the experiences, fears or feelings that others coming into your country have. Coming here dishing out your 'get a grip' advice is frankly just confirming much of what expats complain about here - and that there's no point going to a native Dutchman when all you want to lighten the burden because there is no sympathy, just missed-the-point comments like...




See you around, Rita v.D wannabe

Agree with you Shap...